h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hey, didn't some guy do that a few years ago? Get into her bedroom with a bottle of wine and sit and have a chat with her. The same thing happened to our Prime Minister as I remember, but his wife whacked the intruder with a statue as I recall. It may not be the way it really happened, but it's the way it should have happened.

Tried to top himself, too. Must have been a nice change for her.

here it is, we can borrow her for half an hour:

http://history1900s.about.com/library/weekly/aa112300a.htm

four dead in o-hi-o

Looks like Mr. Bush may be getting more isolated:

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/06/iraq_straw030306


(concerning a suggestion for Canadians that they read Obasan which was posted on another thread, the book is a highly regarded Canadian novel by Joy Kogawa. The novel tells the story of one family's experience of internment during World War II. At that time many (most) Canadians of Japanese ancestry were disposessed and interned by the Canadian Government on the grounds that they were potential enemies. This sad legacy is the common heritage of many Allied countries who pretend that they fought the war to stop the very activities that they were engaging in themselves. The experience of the Japanese (and Ukranians, and so many others) is common knowledge in Canada. We don't need to be reminded to read (usually re-read) Kogawa's novel. We see the memorials, our government pays compensation, our government makes official apologies). These events occurred on our soil, they were committed by Canadians against Canadians and we acknowledge these mistakes and try to redress them. We try not to export such errors.)

What's up with you, Shocker? You sound like a script from a Ronald Reagan war movie.

By the way, you didn't invent democracy or any of that other stuff you're so proud of. Go to my personal space and review a little of the truth for a change. Then see what you can do about cleaning up your own backyard before you presume to tell others how to cleanup theirs.

http://history1900s.about.com/library/weekly/aa112300a.htm

The point here is that security is a misnomer when it is placed in the hands of bored functionaries.

No one should be incensed tomorrow if something happens today because they weren't doing their jobs yesterday.
Besides, "Security Guard" is an oxymoron.

just got done plowing through the backlog... had an interesting day yesterday and today... details to be hidden later.

anyway:
Analiese said:

* "Well, I can maybe see how you would feel that way, Mr. Revenge. However, I've done a bit of reading too and I've concluded, probably contrary to current popular opinion, that there has never been a president of the United States who couldn't make a bad situation worse by getting into the middle of it."

Considering the party and organized crime machinery that was responsible for some of their nominations and elections, I would have to agree with you in many cases. But I cannot agree with your use of the word "never".
When I was a janitor, and now, as a parent, I often find myself having to deal with messes or situations that others have left or ignored. A President can sometimes be a janitor, stuck with what the previous administration left him, or a parent, trying to punish and teach at the same time.
Of course, when we consider that Congress is the biggest Day Care facility in the universe, we find ourselves marvelling that any president managed to make it through his term without calling in an air strike on the Capitol or sending in the Marines to do a little punitive action.

* "That's one of the reasons the bad situations keep proliferating. I don't think there's suddenly been a new technological breakthrough that's increased the production of dictators significantly. But you sure can make it easier for them by creating countries out of colonies for them and buying them armies to keep everybody in line among other things. All in a good cause naturally. Has America ever supported a bad cause?"

Okay, let me try to limit my use of sarcasm here...
remember when we were in a discussion where someone mentioned that doctors (well, and dentists) used to torture their patients by "bleeding" them to release bad "humours"?
You can't blame everything on the janitor when nobody is bothering to pick up after themselves.
See, America is not supposed to exist in the first place.
It is not Germany, France, Belgium, Great Britain, Italy, Spain or, or, or... any of the 'legitimate' countries.
It is the upstart. The mistake. The abomination.
Yet, it endures.
It is a bad cause, itself, from the start. It told several Sovereign governments where to get off. It got invaded by Britain a few years after it told them to kiss off...
So, as I have said in so many other threads since I've been here, do not be surprised when a government does something bad... that's what they're good at. But be pleased and surprised when they accidently do something good. Those are moments for celebration.
The "bad situations" keep happening because people are creative. They find peace boring. They always believe the grass is greener in someone else's yard.
The "bad situations" would still exist even if the U.S. never had.
This is Earth, the world. The people on this planet spent 20,000 years (at least) killing each other before the colonies were even founded.

* "Well, some of us would reverse that question and ask if America has ever supported a good cause or at least ones that didn't make a few Americans rich while the rest got to salivate and say, "Hey if he can do it, so can I if I just work harder." Little do they know. It's not the working that does it. It's the getting others to do the work that does it and always has."

Every nation, had and has it's merchants.
They are the one's who created Police forces and modern armies. They didn't want to get rippped off by amateurs while they were legally robbing the customers blind. They are the ones who worry about price indexes and property values and whether the territory has access to a harbor.
The merchants control the courts and the legislatures and they control the EU. They control the banks.
They respect no rights of anyone and they are members of no party or country.
It makes no difference to them whether they make toys or landmines or chemicals or waste. If it makes a tinkle in the pocket, then it has to be good.


Other, possibly unconnected thoughts:

If war could only be paid for with cash on hand, instead of by going into debt, then Sun Tzu's precepts might be followed more often.
On the other hand, an army that has to forage is not exactly going to be respectful of the rights of anyone.
If the merchants had to donate the materiel used in war, instead of profiting, then Eisenhower's warnings about the "Military/Industrial Complex" might soon become just a memory.

Washington warned in his Farewell Address that it would be wise to be sparing and cautious in our alliances and our aspirations and in our building of a government. He also said that it would be a good idea for the, um, budding nation to learn some manners.

::bookmarking::

Maybe "what is wrong" with Shocker is that s/he never really thought outside of the King James Bible too many Americans have been reading from, virtually ever since we bombed Hiroshima. Bear in mind it takes a LOT (of bullshit) to justify the use of the atomic bomb. Shcoker's accumstomed to that GREATEST NATION IN THE WORLD Propaganda. .....when the King James version of the Bible originally came out and formed the U.S. mindset probably doesn't have much correlation with the date 1943(is that when it was!??? For shame; I'm minoring in world history).

My point is, be gentle with Shocker. The mere fact that s/he is here to make a point says a lot about the researcher. Don't scare off someone who has the opportunity to open their minds, please. I know that the world is a dead serious(there's a poor pun!!!) place to be just now. Most of us are angry at the world. And that's perfectly understandable.

Never thought of the U.S. in that way before, Mr. Revenge!!! Thank you very much for that insight. We've been "made" of a different material, and we continue to be that way. But we aren't flame retardant.... maybe just retarded.

Lessee:
KJV = 1611
Hiroshima = 1945

Actually, Shocker's problem is endemic to the U.S. right now.
If you don't have anything to believe in, believe anything.

The bubblegum card cant that serves for a Patriotic litany is so threadbare that it has to be held together with tape.

I think sometimes that Jesus was thinking about the U.S. in the Garden of Gethsemane, then it occurs to me that if he had foreknowledge of the Crusades, that would have been enough...

There's also a powerful argument that Jesus never thought a religion SHOULD come from his presence on earth, anyway...

Ah.... religion.

And I agree (I seem to do that with just about everyone here, to a degree, don't I!?? ) about the patriotic litany, ergo my little tag on my nickname!!!

I just caught up with the backlog, and I for one love Shocker and Jesus. I have tears in my eyes from laughter. I encourage all Americans to read at least a summary of the U.S.A. Patriot Act and The Homeland Security Act and then ask yourselves how different we are from the dictatorships we repudiate throughout the world. Then look at Iraq versus North Korea or Pakistan (funded Taliban has WMDs) or East Timor (where thousands were slaughter under occupation while the U.S. gave military aid to the occupying Indonesian army) or look at Turkey (NATO member currently repressing and murdering Kurds, the same guys we're going to go liberate in Northern Iraq). Tell me who you'd invade to protect the sanctity of human life and to free oppresssed people throughout the world. My money would be on Tibet, why not take out the Chinese for their incursion into a small mountain republic where they are almost done destroying the culture and religious foundation of a indigenous group that goes back centuries. If you want to start WWIII over principles and ideology, lets defend Tibet from the Chinese and see who gets squeamish after we use nukes on Beijing or Nanking.

I guess I'll yield to your points, Mr. Revenge, as far as they go which ain't far enough, by the way.

Yeah, the Brits invaded America, but then the Americans invaded Canada didn't they? And then they invaded Mexico, more than once, the first time calling it Texas to sort of confuse the issues, like they're doing now. Then they invaded the territory of numerous sovereign nations from sea to shining sea until they ran out of "frontier" which what they called all those sovereign nation territories, again to confuse the issue. Then in 1898 they invaded Cuba and the Philippines, and started a war with the Moros there that lasted until 1913 and really never actually stopped until the Americans cleared out after WWII, and I think it might be still going on. They also invaded Puerto Rico and Guam and still hold both as semi-colonial territories. Before that of course they invaded Hawaii and overthrew the government and then belatedly made it the fiftieth state after they depossessed all the natives so Dole could grow pineapples. And while they were running their own veterans out of Washington, DC for having the temerity to demand their bonuses a little early on account of the lack of work that the business of America had managed cause, they invaded the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Nigaragua, Guatemala, and I'm sure a bunch of other countries I can't even remember at the moment because there's too many to remember all at once.

So, after all that, maybe you can see why I've got a problem with at least part of your assertions of good causes and we haven't even got to WWII yet.

Poor victimized America. Yeah, right!!!

Maybe the reason the Europeans didn't think it was legitimate is because it wasn't? Of course they should talk, right? But it does kind of put a different perspective on things I think.

At least old John Adams was up front about it. He called it the American Empire in front of God and everybody. No wonder nobody listened to Washington. They were too busy setting up the Empire and I think they still are.

I remember October 1970 myself. Thats' an "identifier" for my life. Its' a great influence on my mindset this 32 years later.

But that was a different war, different rules, different objectives and completely wrong. The US had no right or business in Indochina, and no clear reason to be there. We knew it, the government knew it.....h**l, the UN knew it....but they didn't enter into the question.

As a matter of fact, to this day I don't recall the UN having one word to say about the US ...shall I say...."invading" Vietnam......for no apparent reason.

Now there is a REAL threat, and god forbid the US get involved.

As I've said before, perhaps on a different thread than this, the US is not directly threatened by Iraq. The Middle East, Southwest Asia and Europe have the most to fear. They all seem the least inclined to act on this threat.

Most people, by polls(...see Mark Twains' quote on that subject)believe that Saddam should be removed. Most people, by polls, say we need to get UN approval before we remove him.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe...by its' own Charter...the UN cannot approve a war. It is a peacekeeping organization. I believe that is referred to, here in "the States" , as "Catch 22".

Maybe we should just back off and let you folks on that side of the Atlantic handle it. We did that once before and got royally bit**ed at for it. 'Course...we're use to getting the "short end" when we get involved. After all...we're the "big bully". We have only our interests in mind.

Has it ever crossed your minds that perhaps your wellbeing might be in our best interest? Selfish? Yes. Reality? Yes.

Sorry if our self-interest assists you. Also sorry you don't see it....yet.

*(Avast ye' landlubbers.....make for the starboard rail. She be a BIG 'un blowin' in!!!!!!)*

NM

Poor Victimized America, indeed. I love how so many line up to defend the innocent people of Iraq... what about the innocent people of the United States!??? We didn't shape our past as the government had it. And many of us don't know about the darkness of our own past history, because the government has so much control over most of our education.

I think backing off is a great idea.

We are victimized here. Victimized by our mass stupidity, the propaganda, the patriotism... Remember, only the rich white men really get to control what happens to our nation.

And didn't Saddam recently make a statement about the SLAVES under president Bush!?? We're not citizens with rights, in spite of what the Bill of Rights say, thanks to the Patriot Acts in motion.

We're strong as a nation. We've been strong. We've had an empire. Guess who else did!?? A little island called England. The U.S. was NOT the first to have slaves, and NOT the first to take over land and people for selfish reasons.

Strength can easily turn ugly. Power is dangerous and seductive. Can't you see we're a victim of our own power!??

If we weren't so damn powerful, Bush wouldn't feel so compelled to take out Saddam, would he!??

So we aren't polite and we are a bullying nation. It seems a pretty natural progression in a nation of such vast resources and vast inequality.

Hell!!! WHY did we HAVE to bother with politeness when the rest of the world was always an ocean away!?? Politeness wasn't a prerequisite then, and why break old habits!??

Come on. We're monstrous. Consider geography. Consider who has power in this republic. And those people have many times BOUGHT their way in to power, into having a political voice.

We the People are only peons. Yes. The United States is victimized.

Analiese, I fear that your point of reference is skewed.

Archangel, I think you have great insight.

Fairly Strange, I believe you are finding facts in chaos.

Just my opinion.

I'm just trying to understand this very confusing world!!!

None of us can, or we would be the default rulers of it.

MMMmmmm... let's just have cheesecake then!!!

(Goodnight)