h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

There was an discussion about adding somebody without asking - so I ask...

"America is, and always has been a Christian nation. I think the stupid people who want to change the Pledge to say "one nation, many
faiths" don't seem to realize that ONLY in a Christian nation are we free to HAVE many faiths, so if they want to retain that freedom, they'd
better shut the hell up before the whole thing goes crashing down from that kind of talk."

Is one free to have any faith in Japan? Just asking.

To analiese:
About free before: Only in Rhode Island.
About the pledge: it's a tradition. I'm sure that wherever you're from you probably have some patriotic things in your country too.

My people have lived in so-called America for thousands of years, Nerd. I think we were a little ahead of Rhode Island on the religious liberty issue and we never needed a pledge of allegiance to bolster ourselves either.

Maybe that's because we never seemed to have to force things on people so we didn't doubt their "patriotism".

Aha! You're from Canada then? I've heard they have heard of patriotism up there too.

No, I was born in Allen Canyon, Utah, and raised in northern Nevada, which is actually called Pia Shokopia, by the way.

I've heard there's people around there, immigrants or the children of the same, who've heard of patriotism too and I've actually met quite a few but that doesn't make it any more sensible.

So where did your family immigrate from? And did they have patriotism there too? If so, you would've thought they would've learned a lesson, don't you think?

Nerd42....may I make a quick "heads-up" for you. It would be in your best interest to visit Analieses' "Home" before you speak further! You are already outflanked because you haven't done your research!!!!!

Now..on to other subjects. On the "Nerdmans'" point about the "Pledge of Alliegence"....the court is right. The original "Pledge" did not have the words "under God" in it. It was added much later(I think in the 50's "Commie" scare days). It has no place in a secular society. Nor does the "In God We Trust" on our coinage.

Geeesh...somebody stop me! I'm sounding like a liberal!!!!....no....truth is truth to any political persuasion if they only will see it. On this issue, I am on the left side, solidly. Along with the "prayer in school" and all that fine stuff.

The further my government stays away from my religion, the happier I will be.

Oh...and the US government was NOT founded on "Christian Principles". It is based, almost entirely, on the Roman Republic(see...we are NOT a democracy!!!), with a little Greek philosophy and experience from the Old World (mostly "things to avoid")thrown in for good measure.

Thats' my liberal diatribe for today.LOL

NM

I agree.

Up to a point, you're correct, Mr. Strange, whether or not Mr. Nerd does his homework, but when you say it's all based on Greece or Rome, that's not quite so correct.

The parts about "we the people" really have no precedents in Greece or Rome. Sufferage, such as it existed in those polities, was dependent on wealth as much as anything else with the indigent being excluded at various levels, or "cutoffs" if you want to think of it that way.

"We the people" and "freedom of speech, religion" and such, mostly in the Bill of Rights, sort of an afterthought to get the federation approved and to get the Articles of Confederation replaced, come from the Haudenosaunee confederation constitution of which the American founding fathers were most aware since they had been dealing with it for 150 years or more.

I think it's important to recognize where these legacies really come from so people like Mr. Nerd don't get confused about when such things as freedom of religion actually got started.

Analiese.....lower your gunbarrels a bit. I'm on your side on this one! GGGEEESHHH!!!!

Your knowledge of history is apparently better than mine, but the only point I was intent on making is the fact that the government here is based on a lot of things...."Judeo/Christian Principles" ain't it!!!

NM

Is this why there are so many US-based tirades against the 'evils' of multiculturalism?
besides, those generous, loving English pilgrims that did so much for America were of the Anabaptist persuasion.
Who of course were all for religious freedom- having been denied it in their own country- so long as it was for them. And they were good Christians, of course.
Hardly the recipe for freedom of faith.

One of the main reasons for *denying* things to other faiths in this country (UK) is the myth that it's a Christian country, and any other faiths are either misguided or satanic.
(That's not necessarily a characteristic of Christians in gen. however- just the ones who feel like mucking in other folks' business because of it.)

I'm afraid most of those "tirades" come from my conservative brethren.

Some on the "right" are occasionally a bit less understanding of history than others.

Yes...the Pilgrims and others were trying to escape the very intolerance they imposed. It's my opinion that this is the basic reason for the Amendment in the US constitution forbidding the government instituting a formal religion.

Did I mention our founders using ideas from the *Old World (mostly "things to avoid")*...I thought I did!

NM

There's plenty of them on Snopes, that kind of thing. Usually in response to moves to remove the 'Under God' etc. phrasing from various things.
Multiculturalism to me is one of the best things that can happen. At least in theory, *and* practice, as I have experienced it.

I wish there had been no formal religion engraved upon my country... or at least in the minds of those who think it *ought* to be. Is it untrue therefore to describe the US as 'a Christian country?'

Nerd42: one reason you might not want that in your weighty official documents is the discomfort and alienation it immediately confers on those outside the officially-sanctioned faith.

wow, you have your anti-US and "my great great grandaddy got run off by your great great grandaddy" guns blasting don't you? calm down a bit huh? nobody's alive who took anybody's indian land anymore now and hasn't been for at least a hundred years or more!

I'm getting outta this conversation now.

Hiram Maxim said," My family came to America to enjoy the freedom to practice their religion the way they wanted to and to deny other's the same..."

Religion and government have no place with each other.
One doesn't pay taxes, yet collects them.
The other doesn't pay taxes, yet collects tithes...

Government and nationalism are kind of religion.
And most religions have some form of governing body.

The blind fervor that one finds in "Patriotism" and "Fundamentalism" ignores completely the fact that it is impossible to be a stupid patriot and an ignorant fundamentalist.
Thus, the words and the ideas, if any, are stolen and used in a lying manner.

The Fondling Fathers, if anything, were influenced by the French thinkers of the Enlightenment, before they were killed by the peasants, and the legacy of the Cromwell experiment in England in the 1600's. That, and the principles of real estate brokerage...

A bit of real research will show that the businessmen among the Foundling Fathers did not let religion stand in the way of their principles or their networking...

And Nerd boy, don't accuse other people of attacking... when you are jaywalking...

Everybody is entitled to an informed opinion.

NO one was mentioning a word about the Native Americans being persecuted. At least I didn't read it that way. There was no whining about the past, just a statement of our history. Our Founding Fathers knew a good thing when they saw it: theories of govt that were developed well before 1776.

hmm... insult someone then run off so they can't answer you? Noble. And don't forget to ignore anyone else's comments to you also.

Hey hey-- it takes all kinds, and it takes guts to even enter an argument with something to say.

Yeah, but you have to be prepared to stay and support what you've said.

Right you are.
but some of us try to leave the bumper stickers on the vehicle and weigh in with some small idea of the backlog...
or at least the context of the current conversations.

Which reminds me.
I didn't know that you were supposed to ask before you added someone to your 'friends' list?

I think someone is trying to get Analiese to notice them