h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

My son observed the other night, watching TV3 news, (an American/Canadian owned channel) that as he told his uncle: "'Their side' has propaganda, 'our side' does public relations',is that how it works?" It's true. A reporter talking about Taleban "propaganda" then reporter Carol Hirschfeld talking about "Pentagon Public Relations staff" It is to laugh! If a child can see through it,how come adults can't? Donald Rumsfeld stood there(looking uncannily like Dubya!) and commenting on civilian casualties,said "These men are accomplished liars." I was tempted to say,"Takes one to know one!" Why make such a federal case out of denying civilian casualties? We know it's true- it's inevitable. Smart bombs aren't, after all.

Listener, I am amused - you addressed your remarks to Loony, but I feel I must comment... I have to say I don't know the man, I don't know where he lives and I am reasonably sure that he and I would find that we don't agree on very much at all, if anything? For one thing, I don't think he's anti-American. As for me, I am so not happy with American foreign policy, or American culture as exported by movies, TV, MacDonalds and Time magazine. But as there are 270 million + Americans, how can I be against all of them?

Out of curiosity, della, what aren't you happy with about our movies that we export? It's not like the government has anything to do with movies...it's individuals, who ought to have the freedom of expression. Movies are an artistic expression at best, cheap entertainment at least. And what about McDonald's?? By the way, do you really think that that's what we're like? Movies don't give a picture of real life. Our culture is nothing like what's in the movies...it's a gross exaggeration at best. What about japanese films (anime especially), for example. Do you think they represent japanese culture? Does Absolutely Fabulous represent British culture??? Maybe I've misunderstood, and I'd like you to clarify if I have, but the fact is that movies don't mean squat. If you don't want to see them, don't.

Personally, my favorite movie of late is snatch, made by guy ritchie, which of course is an english movie. And it's about a bunch of dumb criminals in England...just funny. Perhaps the funniest line is made by Dennis Farina when asked if he would like to claim anything at the airport going back to new york..."yeah, don't go to England." (Just a joke, don't take it seriously.) However, I don't base my view of British culture by that film.

By the way, if the fact that a lot of our movies have violence and immoral stuff that you may not like affecting your culture, this should prove to you that our society is as secular as it gets.


Ok, i'm about to stop, but i can't believe that you'd bring up movies. and mcdonalds! What did the hamburgular ever do to you?

The Christic Institute were bankrupted by the CIA in a series of legal moves to counter the Iran / Contra hearings. Almost all there publications (which i've been refering people to for years) have dissappeared - effectivly banned in the US through publishing blacklists and lost in the UK following mysterious fires and robberies in depots and distribution centres. Odd that. The CI may still opperate in some form, but i've found no trace of them in the last two years.

SOAW is the School of America Watch, an organisation who campain against a government terrorist training camp (in Georgia i think). They have a web site, and are organising a vigil soon if youre interested go to [URL removed by moderator]

The US is undoubtly a more religious country than is most or all of Europe. With that said, the major reason the American experiment happened was to get away from the religious intolerance in Europe during the 17th, 18th and even 19th century. The founding tenets of the US is to respect different religions ,beliefs and to seperate them from politics. A politican might be religious but there is a very strong 200 yr tradition to seperate the two.

I have had many European visitors who have found it strange that people in the US go to church every Sunday instead of just on Christmas and Easter.

The Christian fundamentalist in the US have kept a very low profile (for a very good reason - Islamic fundamentalist and Christian fundamentalist are just different sides of the same intolerance cloth). A fundamentalist minister did early in the crisis raise his voice and was roundly denounced as an idiot.



PS Are you saying that the reason Islamic Fundamentalist came into being becasue of the actions of Israel, USSR and the US? As an admitted novice I thought the bigger issues was conflicts between the secular vs nonsecular Islamic worlds? If those events had never occurred, there still would be Islamic Fundamentalist looking to overthrow secular governments. Perhaps if there was no 225 yr tradition of democracy in the US, Christian fundamentalist might be trying to do the same thing?

paid youths close to slave wages and then sacked them when they reach adult wage age for starters.

If you don't think movies influence world opinion on America perhaps you should ask yourself why men in a large part of the world think that all western (not just American) women are akin to prostitutes that can be felt up and groped at will.

On the other hand, since the average size of the US poplace is larger than their European counterparts, I do have the refreshing moment when I try on an item of clothing in Gap, and have to ask for a size 6.

If it is a conspiracy to convince women outside of the US that they are in fact thinner than they think, then it's worked for me

Similpost

Listener, yes one of the televangelists (Falwell? or someone of that ilk) basically said that America had brought it upon itself because of its behaviour re abortion, divorce, etc etc but was forced to offer a very dodgy apology about comments on a christian tv station discussion group being taken 'out of context'.

Della

I can take your not agreeing with US foreign policy. I don't agree with it much myself but export of American movies, culture, etc.. All I can say as a businessman that they wouldn't be around if no one would buy them. Before you critize me for selling, you should look in the mirror for buying.

Ok, now I get serious.

Unfortunately that is a very poor argument; the supply/demand law may be true to some extent, as you say, but to put the blame on the customer for the sins of the vendor is very much like saying a woman deserves to be raped because she happens to be wearing a short skirt.

As that holds very little water in law, then you might need to argue your case a little better.

Stay ,
WD

If you look at the vertical integration policies of the large hollywood studios from the thirties onward you'll see that the producers of US films own the distribution and the venues of films too. They have a monopoly on which films are shown and where. So people can only choose between whet the US corporations want to show them.

And as these companies own all the other media too, the have advertising in their pocket, an, unfortuately, people buy what they are told to buy, and like what they are told to like.

Thank u for an intelligent posting re: Christianity

...all

A product is or not sold for long unless there is a demand. You can make any excuse you want but it is a fact of nature and commerce. People are in the movie, etc... business. They only are in it to make money. If they can't make money they change the product to something that does make money.

It is hogwash to say that movies, etc... are forced down your throat. Don't buy the product if you don't like it. The company will go out of business or change the product.

Vertical integration my but. A famous person said follow the money...

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Goens -
Re: Religion

While America regards this war as a response to a vicious and symbolic attack, the Muslims under Osama bin Laden see this as a war between the Christian god and the god of Islam. It goes back to the (misguided) backing of Israel in the most recent conflicts. The people of the Middle East saw that we were backing the Jewish peoples in the Middle East. It sent a message to the Muslims that we didn't think they were worthy of receiving aid. With no explanation why, and the majority of people in America being Christian (in Muslim eyes a cult of Judaism), they were bound to think it was an attack on Islam. Now when Osama tells the Muslims that it's Judeo-Christians against Muslims, the message rings true. It's the biggest obstacle that we'll face in the future. Even if we kill Osama, other leaders will arise. It's public opinion that needs to change.

It doesn't really matter how Americans feel about other religions. It's how we are perceived - and that's really what this thread is about. And I'll go back to ol' Dubya (sorry, don't mean to harp on this!) and his reiteration of "God Bless America." I have no problem with this being said to the people of America. But the Muslims in Afghanistan get CNN too. I wish he had a more subtle, less cowboy-correct sort of message - like "God bless us and keep us, and bring us peace." Because the Muslims (as I've said before) don't perceive Allah as being equivalent to Yahweh, "God Bless America" will come off as a plea to the Christian God to (essentially) fight Allah. This is my opinion, of course - and I don't mean to offend Muslims or Christians. I seem to be the only one who's 'worked up' by the idea, so maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.

Okay. Done with that subject... Let's talk about something more cheerful, like this anthrax scare!

Anybody heard any rumors about Taliban deserters? I understand there was something over 4000.

Autist:

> If you look at the vertical integration policies of the large hollywood studios from the thirties onward you'll see that the producers of US films own the distribution and the venues of films too. They have a monopoly on which films are shown and where. So people can only choose between what the US corporations want to show them.

Actually, autist, this is no longer true, and wasn't very true back in the 1920's and 30's. Paramount, Fox, Warner Brothers, R.K.O., and MGM operated less than 20% of the movie theaters in the country. In 1948 the Supreme Court decided that this constituted a monopoly, and the movie studios got rid of their theaters. For more information, look on the net for "Silent Screens" by Robert Sklar.

The monopoly was dismantled because the studio-owned movie theaters had an unfair advantage in terms of movie placement. However, this concept became even more obsolete when television was invented - now movies could be advertised across America, and it wasn't necessary to drum up exposure.

It's certainly true that movies give Europeans a skewed view of life in America - but isn't that true of any media product, around the world?

And quite honestly, because this is a free-commerce system, you can't tell people what to buy. You can tell them that this product will make them sexy and desirable, or that it's delicious, or that it'll make hair grow. But if the product doesn't do that, people won't keep buying it. That's why we have Consumer Reports! (served me well when I bought a used van four years ago. )

Listener: I live in the "Bible belt" in the US, and I seriously know 3 people who go to church every sunday. I really don't think the US is more religious, but I could be wrong. I heard on the news the other day when some foreign minister came here he was amazed to see that ANY US citizen went to church at all. In the past we have always heard that the US is not religious enough...Personally, I have never once seen my family in church (except at my wedding), and we never went when I was growing up. Neither did my husband. The only time I go to church is when I play in the orchestra. Does anyone have any viable statistics?

In the UK and most of Europe all the movie theatres are owned by the studios, with the execption (in Britain) of around 100 independents, mainly funded by the BFI.

"Movies and video games don't influence behaviour. If they did, then everyone who played PacMan would be running around darkened rooms, eating magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music..."
-anon