h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

There's certainly a story which i was told at school that the partition was drawn up very carfully over a number of months with informed consultation with the people of the areas affected, and then was finally redrawn by a junior clerk who hadn't been party to any of the previous in an hour because the official in question who should have finalised wanted his lunch.

Like most of my school history lessons - i only remember this gist and no names. Damn.

>>Kashmir is an enchantingly beautiful place. I don't know if that's why they're fighting over it, or even if that's a good reason to fight over it.<<

Or whether it still is after all the fighting???

After the partition of India, Kashmir continued to be an independant state. Sometime shortly after Pakistan invaded Kashmir and the ruling maharaja escaped to India. He basically ceded Kashmir to India who then occupied part of Kashmir. This all happened in 1948. They have been fighting on and off ever since.

I do not know enough about the situation to say who is right and who is wrong. (Or indeed who are the terrorists and who are the freedom fighters.)

My point in mentioning the situation was to point out that the stability all over that area is precarious. I think that we are going to see many battles flaring up between various states.

Beth

That is well scary - autist. Dubya was quoted in our paper last night as saying: Caption below photo; "We'll not stop bombing until Bin Laden is handed over" - and in the body of the article "We'll keep bombing because we reject the offer to hand him over" (The quotes aren't really, that's my memory approximation, but it is the sense.) It seems the Taliban want *evidence* which Dubya and his henchmen are reluctant to provide, maybe because they don't have anything that would satisfy a non-American?

Well, Perium, you surprise me - and I am ashamed, I'd put you into a militarist basket - I am delighted to find that you are a pacifist at heart, deep down. Great!
In my opinion Christians *should* be pacifist. There's a Christian pacifist group in NZ. As someone wrote once - it is impossible to imagine Jesus rushing at someone with an AK47, shouting "I'm doing this in Love"

Perium



And that, of course, is why a person who is not a WASP male and able to say "God bless America" really "heartfelt and sincere" would never be elected president in America.

And he would still have to live up to the right wing Christisn fundamentalist gangs kind of twisted moral and hypocritical puritanism.

Hmmm...well.Nice journy guys!

We would probably do rather well i guess, now that u ask!

AND PLEASE DON´T LEAVE ANY LITTER!

T´m.. D...

We're back to religion - cool. I think this is *the* major issue between the Taliban and the U.S.

I've always had a problem with people asking for God's help in times of war. It's a serious conflict of interest. How is God supposed to help us kill? After all, we all worship the same deity. Most enlightened and informed Christians in America will tell you that they're praying for the safe return of their loved ones, but they're praying just as hard on the other side of the globe for Americans to die - it'll turn into a war of who can pray the loudest!

Reminds me of the football players at the end of a game, thanking God for their great performance. What if they screw up? Do they curse God for that fumbled catch? I think we're much better leaving all mention of God out of this - we're in no position to tell God which side he needs to be on. This war needs to stand on its own terms, but with Dubya invoking God on national television, it's going to be difficult.

Della wrote:
> In my opinion Christians *should* be pacifist. There's a Christian pacifist group in NZ. As someone wrote once - it is impossible to imagine Jesus rushing at someone with an AK47, shouting "I'm doing this in Love"

For pacifism to truly work, everybody has to be a pacifist. I'm willing to try, but if somebody tries to punch me in the nose, I'll punch back. I'm remembering the story of the moneylenders in the temple, and how Jesus storms in and knocks them all over. I believe that Jesus wasn't a pacifist, but preached that philosophy because of the oppressed condition that the Jews were in. A warlike attitude would have gotten them killed by the Romans. Instead, their religion was adopted/adapted by the Roman military, and became an underground cult sensation (so to speak!) acombs, right?

Because there is so much smog and pollution covering the US, then I suppose the only clear view that God has of the conflict is the bombing of human beings (made in his/her likeness) in Afghanistan...

Felonious:
1) The Taleban have been continuously trying to destroy any opposition for several years now. The feeling is mutual, I believe.
2) The Taleban haven't used the aid workers as human shields, nor any of the reporters they have captured and subsequently released. And preaching christianity IS a crime in Afghanistan, and these are scarcely the first people from the west to have been apprehended for it.

btw, do you have dates on either of those actions? Thanks

Lucinda:

here's the date for the assassination: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1534000/1534629.stm

Call it a coincidence if you like. I (and most other people) think that bin Laden was behind Sept 11th, and that he and the Taleban are as thick as thieves.

Though it is imagine Jesus rushing at someone with an AK47 remember his actions in turning over the table in the Temples - a Christian must be prepared to use violence against the mechanics and structures of Mammon, though not against individuals. Pacifism is a hard road to tread, and does not mean taking no action.

If Christians want to end terrorism they should follow the example of the Christic Institute and SOAW in trying to defeat the Mammonist structures of the US government.

I'd rather take Ghandi as an example of how tolerance, humour, wisdom and passive behaviour can affect lasting and dramatic change.

I've been dipping into the Bible recently, reading the teachings of Christ and you know what? He was a very liberal guy! Very much a forward thinker too.

I'm really not sure why this keeps coming back to religion. Someone said, I'm glad this came back to the issue of religion because I think it's a central issue...Why is that? I honestly can't see any ties to religion whatsoever, except for the fact that OBL is claiming to kill Americans in the name of Allah. The US government is probably the most tolerant of religion in the world. We don't care if you're Catholic or Protestant, like other "free" countries do. We are taught in public school to honor and respect all relgions, and we are taught a little about all of them throughout our education.

The fact is that we are the victims of attemted genocide. We are retaliating the attack on our nation, and I think we have the right to do it. It has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. We're not trying to take anybody's religion away from them, nor are we trying to convert or anything else as preposterous. OBL told the muslim world on Al Jazeera that the US basically hates Muslims, and this is simply not true. He is using propaganda, and they are believing him. It looks like maybe some other people from other countries believe him too. It's funny that the muslim americans don't believe it at all.

The fact that Bush said God Bless America doesn't really mean anything religious...It's just a message of comfort to the nation during this time of tragedy. This is my opinion of course. I don't know anybody who has even mentioned it over here.

It has a lot to do with religion. As you yourself have said, bin Laden is attempting to make all muslims think the US is engaging in a war against Islam. This is a major factor in the governments decisions on how to proceed. A wrong step could antagonize Islamic states that are currently our allies.
Religion has a lot to do with it. But perhaps you're talking about a different 'it'. We can't know unless you specify.
Also, "I don't know anybody who has even mentioned it over here" is not a solid foundation on which to base an argument. If you're like most people, you associate mostly with others who hold similar opinions as yourself - people who read Rush Limbaugh, in your case. In a country as large as ours, and in a world as big as this, don't assume the consensus is defined by your neighbors. That's why we come and discuss in places like this.

Loony

It is almost funny now! Between you and Della and your intense hate of the US. You are two peas in a pod. So predictable!!! I would like to go to dinner with you two and it would be like a set of stereo anti-american ear phones. Funny!!!One will always know which side of the issue you will be on as long as it is anti-american.

PS Smog and air pollution has not been a issue in the vast majority of the US since the 70 - 80's. I have had visitors from Europe who commented on the clean air.

PSS Eagerly waiting for the next anti-US snipe( culture, history, foreign policy, economy, shoe size, weight, driving and so on and so on)

Flinch

You and you flinchism's. I would like to have a pint with you next time I am in London (it's only a 7 hour flight to Gatwick and a short ride to Victoria Station)to listen to your rantings. But would that be considered consorting with the evil American?

I'm glad you mentioned shoe-size, it's the Americans that introduced all these cockeyed new fangles clothing sizes, all part of a CIA plot you know, i'll post the details when i've made them up...

Well Goens, I know that the American Revolutionaries wanted to keep the church out of state politics and I'm sure your schools teach people about all religions and repect for all and all that. The thing is, that's the American state and the state and it's people are two different things. The thing that worries many people about the USA, including many in the Western world is Christian Fundamentalism. This is virtually unknown in modern Western Europe, although Christianity as a religion continues to flourish. The USA was attacked by Muslim Fundamentalists and although I know Christian Fundamentalists are a minority in the USA, they will, I have no doubt, be vocal about the "holy war" aspects of this. This could spread to the (majority?) secular Christians in the USA. The violent Islamic Fundamentalism we now see looked like it was a thing of the past a century ago. Then Israel happened, and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the Iranian revolution, the Gulf War, US forces in Saudi Arabia and the US bombing of Iraq. These things stirred people into a collective identity to defend themselves from the "others" attacking them. This collective identity is their religion and this caused the fundamentalism.

On the other point, no I can't see why people are getting worked up by Bush saying "God bless America". He calls himself a Christian (even if he doesn't act much like one) and US Presidents have always used terms like this. If Tony Blair said "God bless Great Britain" he'd look a tit, but then our culture is very different from that of the United States.

Details, please, autist, of these groups..I have heard of the Christic Institute, and would like to know more,please.