h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Thanks all. I now have "Tom's Diner" by Susan Vega stuck in my head.

{[caer]}

I don't have much else to add to the abuse discussion, other than to say that I agree with MR and Ben--I don't have a lot of patience for men and women who keep going back to abusive relationships.

I am fairly ticked this morning. The school board of a small Montana town 80 miles south of me, Darby, voted last night 3 to 2--over the objections of school principals, teachers, students, half the community and the state--to adopt the teaching of "Intelligent Design Theory" in science classes as an alternative to evolutionary theory. This was at the behest of a local Christian minister who has no children in the school system. Intelligent Design, for those who do not know, is the idea that the universe is too intricate to be explained just by evolution--there must be a creator behind it all. It is largely used by the religious right to introduce Creationism into the public schools.

What would those of you who have children in school--or anyone with an opinion in general--do if your school board decided to adopt this policy? Would you be for it or against it?

(Sorry, not feeling just now.)

I love Grace Slick. ...Go ask Alice when she's 10 feet tall...

Actually I was late to w**k. But I made it to the polls and dutifully cast my ballot. Since F and I are practically the only Democrats in town, I consider it a serious responsibility.

The songs that I hate to have stuck in my head are kids songs that we use for story time. Just give me that milk...moo, moo, moo, moo!

I would appeal to the County Commission by petition to have the school board impeached.

I would complain loudly about it, to whoever the appriate people might be, I would also make darn sure that I taught my children about evolution myself.

I would be most upset if our school board decided to do that, FG. And considering their track record on other things, I'm surprised that they haven't.

Not on the far right, but...

I think that perhaps it would be good to air a diverse offering of teachings. If we can incorporate Darwinism, we should be able to discuss Creationism. If adequate comparison studies were available for each, with substantial salient information to plead the views of both, then it allows people (in this case, children) the opportunity to decide which to hold to, or whether to incorporate information from each until it makes sense to them.

B4Godgetsforgotten

I would fail to worry about it unless it was likely to affect external exam results by causing teachers to miss out large chunks of the curriculum. I was taught a lot of rubbish at school but I sorted out what I wanted to believe in the end. I didn't adopt the ideas of my parents either. Did any of you?

Regardless of my personal beliefs I rather dislike seeing someone ram their beliefs down students throats. When I was in highschool, I had a Russian teacher that loved to add little tidbits about his faith (LDS(I am sure you are shocked to see mormons in Utah after all)) to his teaching. I was very put out with that when I realized what he was doing. I have different beliefs and do not find them to be compatible with the LDS faith. Coupled with many bad experiances growing up as a religous minority I tend to take the view that faith needs to be left out of public schooling. I would do everything I could to fight the decision of that school board, including callign for their censure at the very least.

Marv and Amy,

I kinda think that's the point I was trying to make. Don't ram one thing down the throats of the kids learning. Give them opportunities to learn a plethora of information on a subject, circumspectly covering as many views as possible, and teach them to use critical thinking skills to make the decision for themselves. I feel that it's because there's been a dearth of diversity in many school systems' curriculum that so many misunderstandings arise over simple matters of culture. Let's give our kids a break and let them learn from the whole variegated lot of ideas out there; trust them to make some good decisions with the info.

B4it'struly1984

FG, I got an email on that this a.m. from other upset parties. If my daughter was in the Darby school system, you can bet that I'd be driving her myself to Hamilton or even Missoula.

I would suggest that all of the science teachers simply walk out on strike. In fact, I would suggest a general strike by everyone. And the removal of the school board. ARGH!!!! Bet you anything I know who that minister is, and he's had an agenda for years.

And don't believe for a second that Judy isn't applauding this, FG. Remember her comment about how homeschooled kids were cheaper to educate?

I wouldn't be too upset about the teaching of creationism, so long as it is taught side-by-side with evolution. If kids were shown the arguements and counter arguements for both sides, they would easily be able to make up their own minds. And since it would be taught by science teachers, I'm sure evolution wouldn't be downplayed.

I would be appalled if my sons' school had imposed such views on evolution. I am glad that they had a much broader spectrum when it came to RE lessons. Even the school I went to in the 60s/70s taught us about all the major religions.

I'm with B4 on this one. All prevailing theories should be put forth, along with the evidence that supports them, along with analysis as to the quality of the evidence.

Amy, I don't subscribe to the religious beliefs my parents had. And since there are no longer on this I need not worry about any family squabbles about it. I've discussed some of this on the site, but in a nutshell. I was raised Roman Catholic, attended Catholic school from Kindergarten through Sixth Grade and then transfered to public school because my parents couldn't afford the tuition at the Catholic school. As a six year old I was aware of the discrimination that took place by the nuns that told us that parochial school children were better Catholics than public school children. My philosophy is that there are many, many things humans cannot explain about our universe which leaves open the possibility that there is some greater force at work that we cannot know at this time. I have a hard time believing that this force, if it exists, expects us to worship it, fight for it and/or die for it.

I don't think it is possible to teach creationism objectively. Technically it should be possible to put forth Intelligent Design as a scientific theory without bringing any particular religious bias into play. But it isn't going to happen that way.

I recommend a book titled "Science and Religion: Are they Compatible?" edited by Paul Kurtz. It came out last year and is a series of essays written by scientists from all over the spectrum. One section of essays is on Intelligent Design.

I see this issue as letting the camel's nose into the tent.

I also think it's ok to teach creationism, as long as Evolution is Taught as well.

BB, my schooling was saved by one Maths Teacher once we moved.

I have Mr Bryan (sadly now deceased) to thank for teaching me enough in two years to allow me to be taken seriously when I got to Secondary school.

Individual Teachers can REALLY make a difference.

Re abuse, there is responsibility on the abused person to get themself out of a situation.

Re family retribution, I also had quite a time convincing my brother not to go and give my ex a going over.

I think false accusers should be named. I can think of a couple of high-profile cases where the guy is named before trial, and the lass isn't named, even after it is proven that she made it up.

I don't see a problem with teaching creation, I see a problem with it completely replacing evolution. Which is what I think is happening in Darby.

Ah, but it's lonely at the top. Who but lowly creations for an all-powerful being to turn to for companions?

I don't know how I'd feel about this issue. I mean, I was taught about evolution, but I just kinda reasoned out the Intelligence theory before anyone tried to explain it to me. It just made sense. Quite frankly, any hyper-intelligent creator could have easily invented such a thing as evolution.

I mean, if I was in charge of the Universe, I would look at designing the Universe the same way that I look at designing computer programs. If I want a wide variety of life forms to be independant from the exact initial designs, I would create simple things and toss in a few mutator variables that would randomly cause them to "evolve" over a period of time. By doing that, I could both claim to have created the life forms by design and to have given them more freedom of environment and choice. Not that I particularly believe in this theory (my theories on how God created the Universe are a little weird, I won't get into 'em here), but it's a fathomable option.

I guess that what I'm saying is that I don't see much need for either putting restrictions or permissions on mentioning that theory for intelligent designs. I mean, if I were to have a child in school, I would want said child to know more about how the world of science works today and could work tomorrow, not how the world got to the point that we're at now.

Hmmm....but going that way would mean that Darwinism might only get discussed in a History class, so an explanation of his theories wouldn't be correct because they were a form of science....

Okay, I've got it. I think that the kids should be told all the prevailing views. Although,....wait, then we'd get into smaller religions wondering why their views on creation weren't also being put forward. That'd also work better under a History class.

Okay, I think that History and Science classes need to switch teachers and textbooks. Wait, just the textbooks, keep the teachers the same. Have the science teachers teach history in the science class, and vice versa. THEN we can have people making astrolabes in cross-genre and cross-class assignments that....

Alright, first we need the Math teachers to loan their textbooks to the History teachers so that they can get ready to teach Theology to the Science students, and....

See, this is why I shouldn't talk much....I don't know what I think anymore....

Alternatively, Affy, everyone could just learn Psychology. A science, with a lot of maths in and quite a bit of history too. Oh, and Darwin's on the syllabus as well.

Reading the backlog I remembered an "Ask h2g2" on ear worms. F19585?thread=297151&skip=0&show=20 I thought there might be an Entry but I couldn't find one.