h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Let me bring you up to date. Americans are ignorant, and they don't realize there is a rest of the world. However, they are continually trying to take over the rest of the world. All American politicians are ignorant and/or stupid.

That pretty much sums it up.

"BTW has anyone else noticed that all Canadian tourists in Europe have a maple leaf badge or motif on them somewhere so that the locals will not mistake them for Americans?"

Those aren't real Canadians, those are the Americans who've been to Europe a couple times and got wise to the trick for not getting overcharged as often.

Do we rule the world? What an interesting question/statement that is! What a wierd form of international prejudice! Have we really drawn a line in the sand, and commenced a p**ssing contest? My country is better than yours type of thing. Ok, open up and take a bite of this.

Let me now draw a line in the sand then. The only thing this line does is let you know on which side of it I stand, and which you stand on. Be that as it may, you can disagree and still have hope for the afterlife.

If anything americans are guilty of being proud. Yes proud. Proud of our country, what we've accomplished in such a short time.(historically speaking we are a young country) We are proud to count ourselves among the wealthiest nations of the world. We are proud to have been ready in time of war, and as ready in times of peace. We are americans, the expiremental democracy that the world laughed at in the dawn of our history, and we are still here, while their governments are not. (our system is not perfect, but it does work) We fought and died for the right to have our own government and our own religious freedom. We have become so much more than that. We have succeeded and in success we have become an example for all of the world. Most americans can't but feel proud.

I agree that some of these things can be said about other countries. But part of what makes us so great is that we as americans have the freedom to simply not give a rip about anyone else but us. No one was there for us in the begining of our country. We got to where we were by the sweat of our own brow. How could we not feel proud of who we are? What's wrong with americans? We're proud of who were are. Arrogant about it even. We're wealthy. We're militarily strong. We're a place where freedom is the highest ideal, be it religion, color, or the freedom to simply fall flat on your face and do nothing with your life. And we did it all in spite of seemingly impossible odds.

Damn right I'm proud.

I must ask you this also, if you are not proud of the country that you live in, why do you live there? I for one love this country, and wouldn't live anywhere else. I can't but remember the blood that was shed to buy me the right to live here. Don't you remember the history of your own country? I love this country. It's not a perfect country. But I love it anyway. And it will always be first in my mind. And you should feel the same about yours!

By the by, I'm not saying that anyone elses country isn't great, wealthy, or militarily strong, or even likeable. This is my own opinion/patriotism. You may very well have your own. But I cannot read or come across a passage of discussion entitle "what's wrong with americans" and not stand up for my own soil. Take is as an attack as you will, but remember that I didn't start this forum. You cannot say to me that you're country is better than mine. I'll NEVER believe you. Don't expect me to believe that yours is either or that you are even in any way shape or form justified in saying "what's wrong with americans". There is nothing wrong with being an american, (there may be something wrong with certain individuals who call themselves americans, but this is true of any nation not just ours.)How about asking yourself why am I such a a** that I have to go and say such a bigoted remark? In any case, while this will probably offend those of you we started this line of communication, I have the ability to simply not care what the hell you think as I am an AMERICAN....read PROUD....read STILL THE WEALTHIEST, STRONGEST, FREE NATION EVER TO HAVE EXISTED. That is what arrogant means. Try not to confuse that with condescending. While I may not be better, I'm arrogant and proud enough not to care.

Wasn't that yummy?

I just read something else that make me shake my head.

"Let me bring you up to date. Americans are ignorant, and they don't realize there is a rest of the world. However, they are continually trying to take over the rest of the world. All American politicians are ignorant and/or stupid.

That pretty much sums it up."

Could there have been a more ignorant statement than this? Not only am I as an American now stupid, I'm also just chomping at the bit to take over the world.

You watch to many cartoons. Go back to kindergarten.

I also disagree that all American politicians are ignorant.

Roosevelt and Truman were exceptional men who rebuilt America then fought a world war and helped to rebuild the world.

Clinton was extremely well infomed, just look at his influence in the Northern Ireland peace process.

Bush, well he gives the impression of not being that bright. He is certainly not as bright as his Dad. But I'm happy to wait and see if he makes a monumentally dumb decision that is just a "dumb decision", rather than a decision I disagree with because I disagree with his political agenda.

On the other hand, Quayle misspelling potato was quite funny

The forum wasn't started to slag off Americans. It was originally an enquiry into why everyone thought Americans were so bad.

The main grief was with the stereotypical American who thought their country was better than anywhere else, and took pains to tell everyone this. Obviously, this could get a little wearing.
Secondly, America's strong world position seemingly enables it to force its culture upon smaller nations. Apparently. Which is also undesirable.
However, since everyone else is more or less unable to do anything about this (due to being less influential), bitterness results.
Fairly straightforward... the trouble begins when assessing whether this is true or not.

Now for my opinions:
As to whether the above is correct, I don't give a toss. I haven't personally met any Americans, but if I do the last thing I want to know is how great their country is. Similarly, I wouldn't tell them how wonderful it is to be British. This goes for any other foreigner. Why would it matter?

Sorry, but I can't say I 'love my country'. I'm not ashamed about this- I can't see what's so important about it. To me, 'country' is an abstract concept, which is difficult to love. When someone asks do I love Britain, I am confused as to what they mean. British culture? People? How things are done here? Nothing represents 'Britain' to me, so there's nothing to 'love'.
Some things I dislike. Intolerance, for instance, which is represented by certain political/media figures. The British Empire, but that's how things were and it would be wrong to judge the situation with contemporary ideas. Personally, I consider England (remember that Britain comprises several countries- personally I prefer to think of them separately, if only to give equal credit to the others) somewhat up its own backside and jealous that we don't have much of a national identity to speak of. Nothing special, in other words. I live here, it's fine, and I shouldn't be required to demonstrate immense pride in where I live in order to remain there. For instance, I hate the town I live in, it's loathsome. But no mob of town worthies is going to deposit me just outside the borders, are they?

It's anyone's right to be patriotic and may they enjoy themselves! as long as they don't shove it down my neck. Like religion- it's your business, if I want any of it I'll ask.

We get a fairly limited representation of Americans over here- mainly dwelling on the apparant lack of humour (particularly of the sarcastic kind), business news and jokes about the President. Although I could safely say most Brits, personally, care little about the USA. Fine- you're under no obligation to think about us either.
in the interests of international niceness.
The 'arrogance' (spoken of a few posts earlier) regarding one's nationality seems to be how people identify Americans. Bear in mind that arrogance is not a good thing, even if the reasons for it are valid. It naturally leads to a better-than-thou mentality which no one enjoys.

There... now the BNP will eat me.
-Mandragora (mentioned Bill Bryson a few pages back... there's a man who should be America's representative.)

That's it, Mandragora, the arrogance is what gets us! I've met 1000s of Americans, and even dated a few (no, Yanqui, don't nit pick, I know it's not literally true). Americans come here in droves (NZ) and here, they rule! (It's a cultural thing, they are adored by most NZers, because of who/what they are...) Pride in one's country is all well and good, but arrogrance rankles, and isn't really justified anyways. (Just threw in a Canadianism there for fun.) Americans are very sensitive and get quite a shock when they discover that other people do not love them, or the USA the way they love themselves.

Same thing bothers me about the Queen. I couldn't care less about the Royals- they affect me in no way I can think of. But, them being a British institution and all, you have to love them.
I'll use the royals as an example of my 'love for my country'- in a word, nyuh.
(which is a real word btw, since people use it. )

The "Let me bring you up to date." post was sarcasm. It's my impression of how a lot of the posts in this discussion seem to feel. Actually, I'm quite the patriot. I've faought for this nation before, and I'll do it again if called.

The French did actually help us seal the deal with England during the Revolution.

Even though we're a young nation, we're pretty old for a republic. The average lifespan for a republic is 200 years. The Constitution is 212 years old, and that's a long time for a government to exist. Of course, we're slowly moving from being a rebuplic to a democracy, and we're sliding down the slope to socialism. Politicians are already using payoffs, like social security, to buy votes.

I think FDR was one of the worst and most influencial presidents we've had. He's the one who got us started on the road to socialism with Social Security, AFDC, etc. Now we're saddled with a bunch of entitlements that we'll have to continue paying forever.

Socialism? It is to laugh, as Bugs Bunny says. I have no wish to be rude, Two Bit (yr choice of name..) but you sound almost as if you are a cliched red neck in yr last post! I am sorry if I should not take you so seriously. Could you please explain the bit abt sliding from being a republic to a democracy? I know many Libertarians in NZ (here) abominate democracy, which excuse me, seems pretty strange to me. I gather that you regard Welfare (of any sort) as a Bad Thing, but why do you consider welfare to be socialism? If it is socialism, now, here's the question.. what's wrong with socialism?

I am apologising in advance for anything I may say which could cause offence. There is nothing wrong with Americans, or Australians, or Irish. We all speak legitimate varieties of English that any person with an idea of how the language works can understand with a bit of effort. As far as the h2g2 rules saying it should be in Uk English goes, that is where the domain is. Alright, it probably would be more acceptable just to put 'English', but there are a lot of varieties of said language. I personally do not care if you spell favour with or without the 'u'(I spell it with but that is how I was taught) but if I submitted an essay in Britain with American spelling, I would probably be directed to the UK spellchecker, and vice versa. Having just studied this very thing thing, I am also aware that writing UK English in America would probably lose me marks, and vice versa. And as for people not understanding us Britons, I wholeheartedly agree because when faced with people speaking a diffeerent language, a lot of brits think they are deaf and so talk louder, not more slowly.

"- unable to detect sarcasm"
not really. I suspect that someone thinking people from America (or any country, for that matter) aren't able to understand subtle humor wouldn't be taking into account certain details. Like how sarcasm, unless blatent, relies on a subtle change of tone. When someone is having difficulty getting past an unfamiliar vocabulary spoken in an unfamiliar accent, then OF COURSE something like sarcasm might go unrecognized.

"- unknowledgeable about things outside America"
true, unfortunately. But, then, how much do most Brits know about America that isn't from the entertainment industry? (that leads to another interesting topic, but I'll let someone else explore it)

"- think big is good"
what, isn't it?

"- unknowledgeable about history, ie anything before about 1900"
that's a west-coast phnomenon. See, American schools have an unfortunate tendancy to focus primarily on American history, concentrating on regional interests. For example, we east-coasters know little of California history, but we DO know a lot about American history from around 1500 on. Blame the schoold. We do.

"- fat"
Sure are! Well, we ARE the bread-basket of the western world. What do you expect?

"- talk in loud voices"
I'm sorry, what was that? you'll need to speak up...

"- specialist subject: stating the bleedin' obvious"
We also have a tendency to be smart-asses and try to turn people's own arguments against them. This is usually considered 'clever', but is often poorly executed. Like this posting, for example...

What's really interesting is that us yanks that AREN'T stereotypical Obnoxious Americans (and there are plenty) are aware of how other nationalities expect us to behave and exploit those beliefs. It's amazing the kind of crap we can get away with in foreign countries that would NEVER be tolerated at home.

Not answering any points to do with obesity, hell it can happen to anyone. Will answer the unable to detect sarcasm question. I have noticed that everybody can detect the subtle change of tone involved in sarcasm. I will not, as a Brit, try to explain that. In my experience the Americans do not really appreciate irony. In ConAir the actor Steve Buscemi had to explain why he was sniggering about 'freebird' being played. As brits we had all appreciated it when the song started and the scene got funnier from there. However, you guys have the Simpsons, which is one of the best tv shows ever. Do you have a brit on the set for some of the gags?

that's so interesting-
Why insist that Americans still can't appreciate something when it's acknowledged that one of the masters of the medium is an American himself?
huh
go fig
Of course, one also has to take into account the type of Americans that are likely to be travelling abroad, anyway. It's not like Europe, where one has relatively easy and inexpensive access to neighboring countries. The people that travel to Europe are probably rich prigs, brainless tourists, or snooty art fags. All those come off as arrogant pricks. I think it explains why Americans are percieved the way they are.

Try looking up Reuben Bolling online - he does a strip called Tom The Dancing Bug. You might be surprised at what you see.

To mandragora,

Arrogance/pride/patriotism call it what you will, I cannot fathom not being proud of my country. Ask me and I'll tell you. Don't ask, and I won't tell you. Ask me what's wrong with americans and wether you like it or not, here it comes my answer to that very question. It also seems that the forum was started to ask each other why you don't like americans, but yet, you (in general, ie those who are participating in this forum) seem to have a pretty clear conception of why they don't like us. Seems kind of pointless doesn't it?

To Della the Cat woman

"Americans are very sensitive and get quite a shock when they discover that other people do not love them, or the USA the way they love themselves."

This is funny for so many reasons. How can I be arrogant, and yet at the same time be shocked that other people do not love me. Is it not true that the working accepted definition of arrogance would simultaneously exclude me from caring what you think of me?

Make up your mind.

Arrogant or not. Talk about rankle. sheesh.....

In any case I have a hard time believing that NZ as a nation is just in love with America. That's just the kind of sweeping generalization that has p**sed me off about this forum. All americans are arrogant a-holes who love nothing but themselves. Clearly this is not true. But we've established it in this forum. And now we're saying that NZ'ers to coin a phrase are in love with America when clearly that isn't the case. Surely someone isn't in love with America, oh wait...that's YOU.

You know what annoys me about the humanity in general? Lumping an entire nation of people into a stereotypes based on nothing but opinion. I would no more say that all americans are power hungry capatilists bent on world domination than I would say that all irish are drunks, all nz'ers are in love with america, all brits have dry sense of humor, all arabs are fanatics, all french are self important, and all italians are of the mafia.

What's wrong with americans? Please what's wrong with your inane ability to stereotype the world and expect us to just nod are heads and say, " ah yes, very astute you're right, all americans are arrogant."

While I may be arrogant and proud of my country, (arrogant in the sense that I don't care if you believe me or not, I do believe in my country) I certainly am not so arrogant as to label an entire nation under one stereotype. Oh I realize you said most NZers, but where do you draw the line?

Also, define this statement, "It's a cultural thing, they are adored by most NZers, because of who/what they are..."

Who/what are we Americans?

And last, back to the sensitive part. If we're so sensitive how come the forum is entitled, Why are Americans so upset that we don't like them?

By the way, Yankee's (not yanqui's, we're not a tribe of Maori, or apache or something) are born north of the mason dixon line, Southerners are born south. I am not a Yankee. And while I am a southerner, I'm and American first, then a southerner. So quell any redneck jibes before they rise.


Can't wait for your response.

Hugs and kisses love america

To Spoo Monkey

LOL

I think that you are probably right about the type of Americans that are likely to be traveling abroad. Too funny.

I think that it is fine to be proud of your home nation. I'm British and I'm proud of it. There are so any British people I know who are not proud of being British. The commonest irrating things Americans ever say are 'I love your English accent,' and 'We saved you in WW II.' I do find comments like 'STILL THE WEALTHIEST, STRONGEST, FREE NATION EVER TO HAVE EXISTED' really irrating but I make similar comments about England.
I must admit that I find it fun to laugth at America but I've noticed that most actual Americans are just like the British in many ways.
I accept that Britain isn't perfect, we have a long history of raceisn, bloody conquests and arrogance. America has similar faults.

Stop the shouting and trolling please. It's a dumb little concept for this thread, but I don't want to see people yelling at each other too loudly. It's a lot easy to misinterpret tone here (talk about missing sarcasm), and I think people are overreacting. Now let me make things worse by throwing my two cents in.

Perium is right about Yankee (or Yanqui for Spanish speakers). Although it has been adopted by other nations as a general term for Americans, it technically is only really a term for Northerners and may cause problems if used in the South. Funnily enough, the etymology is unclear, but it's been suggested that it comes from the Dutch for "little Jan," who may have been a pirate or such. I myself hail from just south of the Mason-Dixon line (the original border of the South), but I consider myself a Yankee since I don't see the South really starting above Virginia.

Cultural imperialism is a funny little charge. I recall hearing about speeches where a Francophone society condemned the spread of English as a detriment to French abroad. What was funny to me is that most French abroad was spread through colonialism and imperialism, so it's not really much better. Instead of being spread through the sword, English seems to be spread through commerce. And this makes things more difficult to untangle. Although I could force you to speak English as a conquering power, nobody is directly forcing people to eat at McDonald's, drink at Starbuck's, or watch American movies. Although I don't really like any of these multinationals or the way their economy of scale outmaneuvers competition, I must concede it's not that simple to analyze, since there is some degree of complicity involved.

The example of "Freebird" seems absurd to me. I believe the point of it was to show that a bunch of deranged, murdering, prisoners have no grasp of irony. If you think most Americans are similar to those characters, yikes! Although I do agree that the Simpsons are probably the greatest cultural imperialist product America has produced.

In short, America is a very diverse and strange place, with regional difference accentuated by the wide geographical area it covers. This makes it hard to really lump it together into nice convenient categories. Also, a population driven by waves of immigration has led to more diversity and mixing. The result is a lot of complex opinions and differences (see http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A260461 for a great entry on it). For instance, I am probably 180 degrees opposite politically from Two Bit Trigger Pumping Moron, but I can understand to some degree where he is coming from. I also am patriotic for the country. I'm well aware of its limitations and some of the terrible things that have been done in the name of this nation, but I also feel proud about the Bill of Rights and our representative democracy.

The main problem that America has is that we're divided about our role in the world. If we act dominant or isolationist, it will cause problems with other countries, and our mixed message of doing both probably adds to the confusion. Indeed, most complaints about Bush from abroad have been not that he's been too pushy, but that he's been too isolationist. There's a lot of active debate internally (indeed I'm sure we could yell back and forth about it for months), but right now, we don't know. So the 800 lb gorilla has a lot of the rest of the world confused.

So, what's wrong with being a red neck? It's a term used to refer to people who work on farms all day in the sun, hence their neck and arms are sunburned, and the rest of their body is fish belly white. I respect guys who get out and work all day in the sun. I'm not. I'm just your average pro-choice, conservative, atheist, republican, civil servant.

In a republic, the people are protected from the whims of the majority. Our founding fathers didn't trust democracy, and I think they were wise not to trust it. Some time, in the early part of this century, we started calling ourselves a democracy. I thin it's a bad habit. I think it is far more accurate to call the United States a Constitutional Federal Republic. Or at least that's what we should be.

I don't see any real value to the way we have welfare set up in this country. It's become a vote-buying scheme for the democrats.

I consider socialism to be dangerous. I consider communism to be down right evil. You can go to the Communism discussion on my home page to see why.

Perium, have you had a look at SEURG Mark II, the Southeast United States Researcher's Group [http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A583760]?

Please read that entry I link to above. It's quite good.