h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Here here.

Don't have a lot of time, but can't resist replying....

Someone I can identify with. I'm southern and if you know anything about that part of the world, the accent sets us apart from the rest of the world.

I don't think we saved you in WWII. How can anyone forget the heroeism of the Battle of Britain. No, no, hardly accurate.

I also agree that we have similair faults, interests, and pehaps even goals. Certainly we go about it different.

And last,....LOL, I enjoyed the comment that I make similiar commens about England. Hats off to you, you should make comments like that.

It's my own opinion, but in all the world the British I think are the closest to us than any other country. It's only fitting, we're British transplants. ha ha ha ha

I come from a long line of farmers and am the first to reach beyond that. I'm as proud as the next red blooded southerner of my roots, but the red neck jokes are old and tiresome. Wouldn't you agree?

I had no idea about the Southeast United States Researcher's Group. I'll check it out.

We always have been a democracy. The distinction is that we're not a direct democracy (ala ancient Athens), but instead are a representative democracy or a democratic republic, in which we locally elect officials to represent us in government. Not only is this more scalable (national elections are hard), but it also creates a buffer and slows down the ability to rush anything through quickly. This may seem bad at first, but nothing can be more scary at times than a truly efficient government. TBTPM is right though that the Founding Fathers were worried about the so-called "tyranny of the majority", which is why we have our structure with checks and balances and a Bill of Rights.

I can't help but point out that you are being "sensitive" and that no one is yelling at anyone.


In any case you agree that I am right about the stereotypes, the imperialistic charges, etc?

Perium, why are you stereotyping Americans while denying others that privilege?

I'm not denying anyone anything. Say what you like, do what you like, I'm not necasarrily going to agree with any of it.

Deny them the privilage...no....disgusted with how they use it sometimes....sure.

Explain.

Are you refering to the statement in my opinion americans are like the british?

Perhaps because I came out and said "in my opinion" instead of making it sound like a conviction or hard set belief. Subtle I know, but nonetheless....

Convictions and hard set beliefs can constitute stereotypes but not opinions? That's news to me. I think what you're getting at is that it's only a stereotype if someone else says it and you don't like the sound of it.

Apart from being patently untrue, how is your claim that Americans are "proud of our country" not a stereotype?

At last I see where you are going with this.

LOL

So I'm busted for using a stereotype to crush another. Hope that makes you feel better.

As far as your statement that I reject something because I don't like the sound of it, you're absolutely right. I do reject things that I don't like the sound of. You do too I would think.

But to clarify it's not so much stereotypes that bother me, it is the ones that are derogatory that I have a problem with. Like,





wait for this one








What's wrong with americans?

good point....

Firstly, sorry about the 'Yanqui' thing, my father (1919-74) was English and used to refer to Yankee this and that (he'd lived everywhere since leaving the UK in 1948, including the USA- he was doing the hitch-hiking round the world hippie thing long before the '60s). There is another person, 'Two Bit' something-or-other, who was doing a red-neck trip, which I thought had to be him being funny...
Re NZers, I am talking mostly (but not only) about the media. You'd have to be here to believe it. Advert voiceovers all have American accents, characters on our local soap go off to live in the USA and when they come back, are regarded as having improved their brain power, earning power and general status 10-fold for having lived in the USA, even if it was for only two weeks! A plonker of a breakfast show host said (and he *meant* it!) "If it's American, it *must* be good!"
Re the sensitive thing, I am thinking mostly of this forum and others, and how Americans get SO worked up about it all! One guy (a Scotsman with a Green Card, it turned out) accused me of being racist, called me 'Archie Bunker' and bled all over the floor. I could not get him to believe that I had nothing against him personally, did not hate him, did not hate anybody, not even George W Bush... (oh NO, someone's gonna take that seriously now!)
Truly, there are things wrong with America as a country and with the way it presents iself. There are things wrong with many individual Americans and with the way they throw their (sometimes considerable) weight around when outside the USA. A New Age person sd he believed that the present day inhabitants of North America, were the Atlanteans reincarnated, so as to learn how to handle power and technology without misuse. This is both amusing and food for thought (to use a cliche).
Repeat - I do not hate Americans, and yes, one can be both sensitive and arrogrant, one simply has to be hiding the sensitivity.

Della, don't worry I'm not offended. I personally hate some Americans and I am an American, but I won't name names.

I'm actually planning to visit New Zealand next spring (well, your fall), so it's interesting to read. I'm amazed to hear how local media tilts that way. Does this mean I can command citizens to bow down before me and my mighty American ways or such?

No sweat about "Yanqui" Della. I just wanted to point out that to the rest of the world we are Yankees, and that simply isn't true. That's kind of like calling an Irishman English.

I think that I (after having slept a little bit and slightly more rational) perhaps came on a little strong. Yet, in my own defense, its unnerving to say the least to come across an forum in which predominately (seemingly) non-americans bash America as a country, and Americans as a nation of people. That sort of behavior I think is unacceptable.

I took your statement about the media to mean that somehow we as Americans were somehow infiltrating your culture with harmful intent and I think that most Americans couldn't care less about anyone else's media except there own. In fact, as I look around I would venture to say that most people care little about the world except those things which directly influence the cities that we live in. I know, another generalization, but take it with a grain of salt. If anything I can see America being guilty of exploiting this seemingly good favor from New Zealand as a potential market for business. The world revolves around the money more than anything else.

I do think that this guy in the breakfast show is an idiot. I can't imagine anyone saying, "it's from america so it must be good." Not all that comes from here is good, but more importantly, like nation of origin has anything to do with the product. Wouldn't things like the quality of material, the training of the employees, the research and development, etc etc, have more to do with it than just "its American"? I must say though in some fundamental sense this is quite a compliment, that this guy has so much confidence in the quality of American products that he says if it comes from here it must be good (prideful stirrings...) Too bad he's too foolish to present that confidence in a more professional manner.

As far as sensitive/arrogance goes, well you're probably right. Sensitive about the issue because this is my home, and arrogant because I still think its the best nation in the world.

No sweat about "Yanqui" Della. I just wanted to point out that to the rest of the world we are Yankees, and that simply isn't true. That's kind of like calling an Irishman English.

I think that I (after having slept a little bit and slightly more rational) perhaps came on a little strong. Yet, in my own defense, its unnerving to say the least to come across an forum in which predominately (seemingly) non-americans bash America as a country, and Americans as a nation of people. That sort of behavior I think is unacceptable.

I took your statement about the media to mean that somehow we as Americans were somehow infiltrating your culture with harmful intent and I think that most Americans couldn't care less about anyone else's media except there own. In fact, as I look around I would venture to say that most people care little about the world except those things which directly influence the cities that we live in. I know, another generalization, but take it with a grain of salt. If anything I can see America being guilty of exploiting this seemingly good favor from New Zealand as a potential market for business. The world revolves around the money more than anything else.

I do think that this guy in the breakfast show is an idiot. I can't imagine anyone saying, "it's from america so it must be good." Not all that comes from here is good, but more importantly, like nation of origin has anything to do with the product. Wouldn't things like the quality of material, the training of the employees, the research and development, etc etc, have more to do with it than just "its American"? I must say though in some fundamental sense this is quite a compliment, that this guy has so much confidence in the quality of American products that he says if it comes from here it must be good (prideful stirrings...) Too bad he's too foolish to present that confidence in a more professional manner.

As far as sensitive/arrogance goes, well you're probably right. Sensitive about the issue because this is my home, and arrogant because I still think it's the best nation in the world.

"it's from america so it must be good."

Actually, I think that's a fairly dangerous attitude. A lot of things that work in the United States wouldn't work anywhere else.

strictly speaking, i would think that individual products come from the companies that make them, not from the country those companies are based in... unless we're talking about someone's display of "IRS forms through the ages" those are produced by the gov't...so i guess you could say they "come from america"

i was under the impression that a good many "american" products are manufactured abroad anyway... (nike, kathy lee, etc etc...) moot statement that.

i mean, at least we can rest assured that McDonalds is NOT good, and it comes from here, doesnt it? (hurts to admit)

Good point about the companies thing. Recently (and possibly still today) Burger King was British owned company, as the brand was part of Grand Metropolitan plc. As were Coca-Cola's European production and distribution and the Dr.Pepper brand.

Perium, you haven't used a stereotype to crush another, you've merely said stereotypes shouldn't be relied on and then gone on to create your own revisionist stereotypes for want of a coherent argument.

Contrary to what you say there's no stereotyping, negative or otherwise, involved in asking the question 'What's wrong with Americans?', so why don't you spell out your real objection to it?

Really?

There's no negative implication in asking the question "What's wrong with Americans?".

That's just to full of b.s. to even be considered as true. "What's wrong" is a statement that implies that something is wrong, and in that context it's a negative statment. I myself do not think that there is anything wrong with Americans. Some have said that we are arrogant. Ok, that may be true, but I think that the arrogance comes from pride in ourselves and what the country has accomplished in our history. I think that the world feeling threatened by us is kind of a ludicrous concept because by and large we are not interested in your country. We become more rich if you still have your own country, because then we can sell to you and make money.

So What's Wrong with Americans? Nothing, you may not like us but there is nothing "wrong" with us a nation. Even still to re-iterate, just because you percieve some of us as arrogant that's hardly a reason to write off the entire nation. In any case the arrogance has a source in pride and there is absolutely nothing wrong with being proud. I think that is the essence of confusion. Is pride being confused with arrogance, or even is confidence being confused with arrogance? When we go to other countries we are proud of being an American and travel abroad makes it much more evident to us that other countries are not like us, and the difference between whatever country you hold up between the two is clear. And I would venture to say that we'd pick America every time.

Speaking only for myself, I think that the only thing that we lack is the history of other countries. We have little to compare against with your Eiffel Tower, Sistine Chapel, Notre Dame, Ring of Fire, Kremlin, or the Salisbury Plain. We don't have the literature, or the history that your country may have. But I feel that we've made up for it in our ingenuity and determination.

Lastly, remember that I didn't create this forum, the responsiblity for defending is in the hands of those who started it, and I hardly think that defense using questions is any defense at all. Think about this for a second....you're defending a line of thought that clearly is aimed at tossing a nation of people who have just as much right as everyone else to be proud of their country. Matter of fact, I think it is almost a moral obligation to stand up and say that this kind of thinking is not right.

Rather than focusing on stereotypes, how about focusing on the "real" problem which is that this forum is in nature hostile to Americans. And as it is, that is unacceptable behavior.

You're certainly doing your level best to make the arrogance charge stick: I doubt many modern-day peoples would claim to be perfect, and yet you do exactly that by insisting that the question's premise is flawed. So far you're doing a fine job of living up to G.K. Chesterton's maxim that "There is nothing the matter with Americans except their ideals. The real American is all right; it is the ideal American who is all wrong."

I find this a little peculiar as there's no shortage of Americans asking each other this very question on a daily basis in an effort to improve their society. Who knows, you may even have unwittingly voted one of these unpatriotic ingrates into office. Did it escape your attention that it was an American who started this thread? Still, you're in good company: I'm sure there are many important personages from recent history who would have applauded a similarly principled stand against awkward questions such as 'What's wrong with National Socialists?'.

Also, it's not true to say the USA lacks for history, but it does seem to be largely ignored or unknown there. Perhaps this is one of those things that's wrong with Americans . The Statue of Liberty pre-dates the Eiffel tower, and is its superior both technically and (arguably) artistically, and I'd much rather go back to Cahokia, Chaco Canyon or Mesa Verde than re-visit that over-sized proto-Lego construction on Salisbury plain. The likes of Thomas Jefferson, Louis Sullivan and Frank Lloyd Wright seemed to know what they were doing on the architectural side too, and it's not as if there's a dearth of American writing talent.

Hear, hear. America should be commended for the thought and planning that went into its political structures and founding ideals. It might not always work effectively and perhaps I don't agree with the political concensus of America. But I can't overlook the fact that in America the constitution starts with the words, "We the people". In the UK, we have no constitution, we have "Her Majesty's Government".