h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'm with Mol. My pushchair and I nearly got ran down by a cyclist not so long ago at a pedestrian crossing with the green light for us. When I gave her the look, the young woman said 'But I'm allowed!' I believe there is some scheme in London at least to allow cyclists to run certain red lights. I am pretty sure, thought that that doesn't include pedestrian crossings though, particularly not occupied pedestrian crossings.

I'd like to say this was an isolated incident, but cyclists seem to see a pregnant lady and accelerate. I have lost all faith in their common sense. Must be the car fumes.

Of course I come from a town which had separate cycle paths throughout. Only way to fly, I tell you.

I'm a nervous cyclist and aviud the city centre roads as much as possible.

I once was waiting patiently at a red light with no traffic on any of the surrounding roads and a pedestrian had a chuckle at me for bothering to wait. Needless to say I DO follow the rules when i do have to cycle on roads.

My bike has had a flat tyre for about 4 months, anyone want it, it's pale purple and about the right size for your average 13 year old. I live in the city centre these days, and dislike cycling in the cold wet and busy, not to mention dark of winter.

mini

>>A cyclist had to swerve to avoid us and *she* was swearing at *us* for getting in her way.She hadn't seen the red light, because it was a one-way street and she was cycling the wrong way along it.
So, not keen on cyclists

She was certainly a bad road-user, but it was her fault, not her bicycle's. You'll find exactly the same sorts of people using other vehicles, like cars for instance, but instead of you being left with no feeling of respect for cyclists after such an incident, you're far more likely to be left with no feeling in your lower body, or perhaps no feeling of being alive any more.

When I see an idiot cycling, I'm grateful that the idiot isn't driving a car. Far better to be irritated by the idiot on a bike, than be killed by the same idiot in a car.

The problem cyclists (or organ donors as I call them)are the ones who have the 'You wouldn't dare hit me' attitude, and who forget just how vulnerable they are in an effort to prove a point.

Idiots drive cars too though, it's not just restricted to velocopedists!

Having cycled from the age of 7 to 44, on roads, off-road and cyclocross, I'll attempt to explain the OP.

>>You stop, and a cyclist overtakes you on the inside - rides up to the front of the queue of traffic and stops...<<

The reason a cyclist does this is:

a) The cyclist is not encased in a ton of armour and has no protection from that motorist who is not going to notice him and will suddenly turn left without indicating. Because the motorist has forgotten where the indicator switch is.

b) By being at the front the cyclist has a chance to see what is happening on the road, and can take evasive action, if necessary.

c) The cyclist is fed up with motorists suddenly stopping on double yellow lines and the passenger throwing the door open, to drop the DVD DVD into the rental shop's letter box, rather than finding somewhere to park and actually having to walk. The cyclist is now either dead or watching hospital tv, having head-butted the pavement.

d) Because motorists will always complain about the cyclist, but don't notice the cyclist until the pedals of the bike have scored the car's paintwork because the cyclist suddenly only has 4" of road to cycle in.

e) The cyclist sits right by the lights because he knows the oncoming motorist will accelerate while the light is amber, to save time. And the Motorist sitting on red is ready to perform a Le Mans start, before the amber light has appeared. Exit the cyclist.

f) And lastly, because the cyclist actually can squeeze between the narrow gaps between cars, and can also accelerate away from the lights quicker than most motorists can.

I've experienced all the above, and particularly was infuriated with motorists at Hyde Park Corner, Marble Arch and Park Lane which is a metal free-for-all and cyclists hope they have more lives than your average cat. Lycra and a string hat rarely win against a ton of metal that should be under the contra; of a motorist texting or on the mobile.

But, of course, it is a case of survival of the fittest, or most proceed, so 1 - 0 to the motorist. Every time.

In 2010 there were 111 fatalities, 2,660 cyclists seriously injured and 14,414 slightly injured. These were those incidents that were recorded.

For Q2 of 2011, pedestrian, motorcycle and car user fatalities dropped by 2, 4 and 7% respectively, while the number of cycling casualties rose by 6%, while the number of fatalities and seriously injured rose by 8%. These figures are from RoSPA and dft statistics.

MMF

pedro's right. You pull in to let the cars past, and you're stuck. You say that for most of the road, the it is unsafe to overtake the cyclist. But idiots will try anyway, unless the cyclist is owning the road, riding well out of the gutter. The problem is that if the cyclist concedes that position where it is safe to overtake, zie won't get it back.

TRiG.

The other factor cyclists have to consider is the state of the roads and avoiding potholes, broken beer bottles and raised street furniture, all of which are likely to puncture a tyre, buckle a wheel or send a cyclist flying. This is possibly why a number of cyclists can be found cycling a foot out from the Kerb.

I will, however, fully support everyone regarding getting cyclists off the pavements.

Pavements are for pedestrians, as are pedestrian crossings. It is actually an offence to wheel a bicycle on a pedestrian crossing, as it is a vehicle. It should be carried. (re: London Cycle Campaign).

MMF

I am a PFP, who has to use a walking stick. Where I live, cyclists use the FOOTpath most of the time, and when they do use the road, choose to disregard Pedestrian Crossing lights whenever they are against them.

They have the same disregard for traffic lights. If the are red the either a) Disregard altogether, or b) Mount the pavement, caring not a hoot for any PFPs that may be about.....



GT

What is PFP?

*waves to GT* Long time no see

Gt, I am a tri-ped too, and now I just stand stock still and wait for them to take evasive action. They are more mobile than me and, if I hit the deck, it is impossible for me to get back to my feet.

MMF

Same here, Fiddler!

Info for toybox......

A PFP is a Poor F$%&*£$ Pedestrian......


GT

Most of the pavement cyclists round my way move for me now, because they know damn well that I'm not going to move for them.

Time for a shift of target, methinks...

Back before I had a driving licence, I used to be a cyclist. Not a lycra-wearing, helmeted geek like you get nowadays, just a bloke on a bike. I had a couple of altercations with cars, in both of which cases the car came off much, much worse. Tip to drivers - if you're going to physically knock a cyclist off his machine, do make sure he stays down or his bike is unusable, because if you don't, and he has a Stilson wrench in his saddlebag, you'll be leaving the scene with no headlights, and you'll find that despite your car's superior speed, it can't follow a cycle up a queue of traffic and down a footpath, and there's no number plate to report to the police.

And pedestrians - before you step off the pavement, it's traditional to LOOK. I was quite lucky with both times I was knocked off by cars. My worst accident was in the middle of a town, where I signalled properly and executed a left turn off a main road, and a pedestrian who had been standing on the corner chatting with his back to me suddenly turned and walked straight into the road, straight into my path. He was very, very lucky that I wasn't a car, although he'd probably have heard a car coming. As it was, I took some road rash and a moment or two lying on my face in the road, a moment or two the pedestrian used to kick my bike and shout abuse at me, presumably for being so irresponsible to, y'know, ride a bike ON THE ROAD. I don't look very tall when I'm lying down, it seems, but when I stood up his attitude changed a bit, presumably because he was expecting me to be as much of a dick as he was. As it was I contented myself with ignoring him completely, checking my bike was working, and then and only then advising him to look next time he stepped into a road. He spluttered something incoherent, but by that time he was already talking to my back. Pedestrians. Dicks.

My closest near misses in Brussels have been with car owners in their worst stage, the transition to pedestrian.

In other words the flung open car door. Three times in eleven years, saved by my cat like reflexes and cyclist-fu (or luck, depending on how you see it).

sprout

Ok, from reading this thread I've come to one conclusion...

Cyclists and cars need to be separated for their own collective good.


It appears there's a vicious circle...

- Cyclists don't trust any drivers (not really their fault - they can't afford to trust drivers)

- Cyclists act, generally with self preservation in mind, in ways that are not necessarily 'logical' to a car driver or consistent with 'gentlemanly' conduct and therefore p***-off bad and good drivers alike

- P****d-off drivers are more likely to scare the hell out of cyclists or cause accidents

- Cyclists don't trust any drivers

So, quite frankly, the only way I can see of breaking this circle is separate the two...

There was this one time, when I was crossing a road by a junction and having carefully looked in all three possible directions that traffic could come from to establish there were no cars turning into or coming out of the side street I started to cross only to almost get run over by a car turning into the aforementioned street. Driver rolls down his window and starts hurling abuse at me to which I responded, in my Best Shouting Voice "Learn how to use your ing indicators you ing idiot. It's s like you that make the roads unsafe for pedestrians." I think I must have had a pretty impressive Rage Face on because he just drove off.

Not enough road to do that...

And to be fair, I have very few problems in Belgium. If you don't look like an urban guerilla, and you cycle in an assertive but courteous manner, there is no reason for it not to work fine.

My cycle to work is 25 minutes.
Car to work is about 40 minutes or worse if gridlocked.
Public transport to work - between 45 and 55 minutes, but I can read a book...

No contest really...

sprout

As a committed cyclist, and tractor owner, why does the car owner leave it so late to turn into last hand corners, even though they know a cyclist is there , because they have just overtaken you to turn left, then the almost stop and then cut you up! I think they should ban all cars! The place would be nicer



RJR

From the House Journal -

How can safety at advanced stop zones be improved for cyclists?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2011/aug/24/safety-red-lights-cyclists

Interesting reading.

I ride in a rural area and will be commuting by bike in the new year when the weather improves. I don't have severe problems with traffic but regularly get passed closely by cars, lorries and buses (Amazingly, very few vans come too close ). Half my commute will be on dedicated cycleway along the North Wales coast so no fear of traffic on that stretch. The worst offenders are buses .

Going back to the OP and post 24, Whisky points out that there are a dozen or more sets of traffic lights on a 2-3 mile stretch of road. At the outside that makes a set every 450 yards or so which seems like a rather excessive number to me. I'm not questioning the facts rather the logic applied by planners (or lack thereof ).

Such short distances between sets of lights means that drivers will not be able to get up a great deal of speed between sets and will, I would wager be trying to race between them to try and get through (I also bet that a static observer at a set of lights would see a high proportion of 'amber gamblers'). Although the lights are timed to allow a certain speed of traffic to flow through this will rarely be achieved at busy times and many things including cyclists will conspire to frustrate drivers. I take the point that some cyclists are quite slow. I try not to be but my average speed on the flat is around 20-25km/h.

As a car driver as well as a cyclist the number of lights on the stretch of road in question would frustrate me whichever mode of transport I chose.

It might be a better idea to campaign to get the number of lights reduced, particularly on environmental grounds - all those traffic lights using power 24 hours a day, all the motor vehicles using excessive amount of fuel either waiting in traffic or racing away from sets of lights resulting in more pollution.

Clicking through from the Grauniad link provided by swl to the lawyers own blog there is a hair-raising video from his own helmet camera.

Lastly (just to annoy Whisky ) I only encounter 2 sets of lights, both pedestrian crossings on my 20 mile drive to work.

t.