A Conversation for Ask h2g2

"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 561

Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit

avenkat: <>

It's already in use, and I'm already seeing comments in this thread where people are reporting that the atmosphere in the usual warzones has changed. Whether that is from use of the d-bomb, or because we happen to be talking about the issue right now and are being a little more sensitive, has yet to be determined.

icecoldalex: <>

From the d-bomb page: "I vehemently object to the statement you just made, and cannot discuss it without turning this into a huge flame war. I will not allow it to pass uncommented, however, because if I do so then I imply tacit acceptance. I hereby register both my disapproval, and my refusal to discuss it in depth."

The agreement seems to be that this is the accepted definition of a thread bomb, but it's a word that will be less of a wind up? To me, it's like saying to someone, "You are a vacuous, malodorous, toffee-nosed pervert... and I mean that in the nicest way possible."

But hey, whatever turns your screws.

Friddle: <>

Good. Then all we have to do is have the Aces instruct newbies stop by Hoo's page, and Ben's, Ferrettbadgers', blicky's, azahar's, kea's, mine, and anyone else who I left out, and make them read for a few months so they get to know our moral positions. Then they'll be ready to guess what we would post in response to Della's posts, and we won't have to bother anymore. The really bright among the newbies could possibly getting it right about a quarter of the time.


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 562

Alfster

Fried Gold, my friend.smiley - laugh


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 563

Number Six

My, how clever you all are.

smiley - mod


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 564

Alfster

Hmmm, I think that might be the now legendary form of humour called sarcasm.


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 565

Jules-

what's this all about?


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 566

The Snockerty Friddle

"Good. Then all we have to do is have the Aces instruct newbies stop by Hoo's page, and Ben's, Ferrettbadgers', blicky's, azahar's, kea's, mine, and anyone else who I left out, and make them read for a few months so they get to know our moral positions. Then they'll be ready to guess what we would post in response to Della's posts, and we won't have to bother anymore. The really bright among the newbies could possibly getting it right about a quarter of the time."

smiley - huh

Naturally, how could anyone possibly be expected to use the site without an in-depth knowledge of your moral position?



"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 567

kea ~ Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small, unregarded but very well read blue and white website

>>I don’t think anyone needs ‘alerting’ to what someone else considers a conversation bomb, because if we’re following the thread we can see them for ourselves.<<

Snockerty, it's blatantly obvious to me from this thread, and others where people turn up to cast scorn on the Della wars, that a significant number of people don't in fact understand either the conversation bombs that Della drops (and I'm not referring to a simple statement of homophobis or racism) nor the complexity of the kinds of responses she gets from the dirty angels.

Often the 'it's all stupid so grow up and move on' posts appear to me to have totally missed the point which is that Della trolls alot of the time but she does it subtlely enough to not break the House Rules.

I was around the Della wars for months before I really got what it was about. I would sometimes call various people (DAs) on their behaviour, and I'd encourage Della to try different approaches (which she invariably had an excuse for not trying). It wasn't until I had my own runin with Della that I finally understood what it is that she does, and how it contributes the the D wars. I left that dispute with the feeling that I had been supremely manipulated into having an *fight* when I was trying to have a debate - I was in awe of that actually, although I am still unclear how conscious she is of what she does.

My response to that manipulation was to stop talking to Della totally for several months. So I had a different response than the DAs smiley - shrug. The point I am trying to make is that even though I observed the D wars for some time I still didn't understand what was going on. I see this happening alot on h2 where people watch the wars and essentially absolve Della of responsability and have a go at the DAs instead. So the idea that people understand what is happening from reading a single thread totally misses the point.

This issue was named earlier in the thread (i.e. Della's behaviour). As Hoo has pointed out, the general feeling seems to be to let her continue as she does, and to focus on what strategies other researchers can use to stay in threads that Della is trolling without derailing those threads.

To that end we DO care about the community. If you can't see past Hoo's personality or whatever to what is actually being done here then I suggest that you wait and see how the whole thing works out.


>>I wonder how many people have been put off posting by the impatience and rudeness in this very thread. I nearly was but then I wouldn’t want my ‘not posting’ to be taken as tacit agreement you understand.<< Snockerty.

That is rich coming from someone who jumps into a thread with such a criticising and insulting post. Personally I'd welcome some new input into this thread, but I'm unlikely to be very receptive to a new poster who opens their post essentially denigrating the thread and the posting of it's main players smiley - erm


~~~

Your idea of having a page to take derailing convos to is good. I suggested earlier that we have a D wars page for the same reason.


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 568

Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit

Thanks for that post, kea. I've been kicking a thought around in my head for the last half day or so... is it time we recognize the contributions of a third element in the Della Wars? We have Della and her brood, we have the dirty angels, and this thread has been exposing a third factor: sanctimonous, self-appointed community nannies who feel the need to lecture all involved parties for their participation... while being every bit as rude and obnoxious as any participants have ever been, metaphorically throwing kerosene on the fire and then getting mad at the flames for growing hotter.

This thread has gone on for some time, mostly in circles, and with frequent flare-ups. And the flare-ups have had almost nothing to do with Della. I've found myself embroiled with three different people in this thread. And I'm beginning to wonder if this is a phenomenon strictly peculiar to this thread, or if it hasn't been a common quality throughout the Della Wars? Has this sort of thing happened a lot, guys?

Common enough to give the third group a name? I've got a good one.


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 569

kea ~ Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small, unregarded but very well read blue and white website

There does seem to be a bit of lull in this thread, and given that the D bomb is already in use elsewhere* I suggest we have some kind of assessment about what to do now.


Would this be a fair summary of the current situation?:

1. The term Dumb bomb is now in use on the site by anyone wishing to use it as outlined in the Dumb Bomb Entry A3771443

2. A number of researchers, sometimes known as the Dirty smiley - angels, have committed to using the Dumb Bomb as a tool to avoid derailing threads where the Della wars might otherwise take place.

3. There is a general consensus that the use of the Dumb Bomb tool is in place because the derailing of threads and continuation of the Della wars was putting off a signficant number of researhers from taking part in certain threads and this was not good for them, the threads, or the community.

4. There is an ongoing conversation here about whether there is a need to further tools eg

(a) alternate names for the D Bomb: Dim Bomb, Duh Bomb, Conversation Bomb, ...?

(b) a milder version of the D Bomb, with it's own name and explanation of use (either on the Dumb Bomb entry or on it's own entry).

(c) a conversation bomb smiley.

(d) a dedicated page for researchers to take the Della wars if necessary.

(e) do we want to have a trial period (say a month?) and come back and assess how the tools are working?

(f) please add any I have missed.

5. Please add any other relevant points.

~~~

It would be helpful to the conversation for people to comment on this.

~~~

*Blatherskite, can you post a couple of links to where the D bomb has been used other than this thread or the D bomb page?


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 570

Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit

Here you go:

F1965584?thread=612279
F27390?thread=602552&skip=100&show=20&post=p6724928#p6724928 (post 110)

In the second one, I used the term Della bomb, because we hadn't yet renamed it to Della bomb.


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 571

Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit

Argh... well, you know what I mean.


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 572

Ferrettbadger. The Renegade Master

For my smiley - 2cents I think that this thread has run its ocurse now. All it is doing is getting increasingly bitchy and I think that it is no longer productive.

I am not going to just in case something interesting starts happening but I am going to go back into the wide world of hootoo and try not to fight Della anymore.


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 573

azahar

(<> (kea)

I still quite like Thread Bomb as an alternate name. My second choice would be Duh Bomb.

<<(b) a milder version of the D Bomb, with it's own name and explanation of use (either on the Dumb Bomb entry or on it's own entry).>> (kea)

A *mild* bomb? smiley - winkeye I think one type of bomb is quite sufficient, but that people should also agree on how it is to be used in order for it to be effective.


az


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 574

The Snockerty Friddle

Kea
My apologies if I have insulted you or anyone, tis not my intention.

What you may see as an impudent new poster jumping in at this late stage is actually someone who has followed the thread from the beginning and agreed, to some degree at least, with most of those involved at various stages. Earlier, more ‘fluffy’ post may have gone unnoticed.

Neither is it my intention to absolve anyone of his or her responsibility for any part they may have played in any past dispute. On that score my concern is confined purely to this thread.

If I was asked what kept me coming back to h2g2 after the first few visits the answer would include Ben, Hoo and several others whose names always seemed to appear in the thick of all the best threads.

That said, I cannot accept this idea that simply not posting a response/rebuttal implies their agreement. This is a blimey big old place to have to seek out every posting we disagree with and say so.
Hoo obviously enjoys putting trolls/bigots/idiots/stupidity in their place; I (and I expect quite a few others) enjoy seeing him do it. A1002394 oh aye, I know about Hoo. smiley - winkeye But I’d think no less of him if at some point he decided not to bother and certainly wouldn’t assume his complicity.

The 'it's all stupid so grow up and move on' posts may well have missed some point or other concerning previous disputes but if the aim is now to stop those disputes continuing, escalating or putting people off then perhaps the ‘missed point’ is not the most relevant point.


“self-appointed community nannies” - Comedy Gold smiley - ok

“I think that this thread has run its ocurse now. All it is doing is getting increasingly bitchy and I think that it is no longer productive.” – Aye, I’ll agree with that but as I’d spent so long typing and all that smiley - sorry


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 575

Mrs Zen



kea said >> It wasn't until I had my own runin with Della that I finally understood what it is that she does, and how it contributes the the D wars. I left that dispute with the feeling that I had been supremely manipulated into having an *fight* when I was trying to have a debate

Same here.

If you do more of what you are doing you will get more of what you have got. If we, communally, want to avoid the Della-Wars, then we need to change how we, communally, behave.

Vicky / Adeleide / Della / Apple has repeatedly refused to changed here behaviour. The D(whatever)-Bomb is a way for others to change theirs, and I suspect that if the D-Warriors (dirty smiley - angels and others) persist in saying "I know what you are doing, and you are not yanking my chain this time", that she will either:

1) learn to stop yanking chains, or
2) yank the chains of others and collect a whole new bunch of people who just find her irritating, or
2) change her behaviour.

My money is on 2, but I don't really care.

However, I do applaud the suggestion that we try it and see what happens.

smiley - disco

kea - yes, I do think you have provided a fair summary.

smiley - disco

Like Ferrettbadger, I think that this thread has run its course. (Actually, I thought it had run its course when I unsubbed before. I lurked to see whether anything new or interesting was said, and until kea posted her summary, nothing new or interesting was said, though there were new researchers posting.

Della-Bombs. I guess you don't know what it feels like till she bombs you....

Anyways, like Fb, I am unsubbing again.


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 576

Ferrettbadger. The Renegade Master

Given some recent events I wonder if this thread helped at all.

I have more antithipy toward "The Artist formally known as Della" than I ever did have given her posts on the "Moral Majority" thread of late.

I have to say I am finding it *very* hard to ignore her right now...

smiley - grr


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 577

Deb

I can't believe I just got sucked in to spending half an hour looking at the last few pages of posts on the Moral Majority thread, plus doing some Google searching.

As usual, it's people's reaction to "Della" * that stands out rather than the postings themselves. I don't agree with what she says, I'm pro-choice, not pro-life, and I'm pretty much atheist, but I still (despite having read this whole DW thread) don't get why people can't just shrug it off. It is off-putting to read some of the vitriol. But there you go, I can just skip it if it gets too much.

Top marks to you, Ferrettbadger, for putting your comments here rather than cluttering up the other thread.

Deb smiley - cheerup

* I'm using "Della" because that's the name used in this thread.


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 578

Blatherskite the Mugwump - Bandwidth Bandit

Deborah: Della's posts don't stand out on their own? I'm curious to know why you would say that. When I, for instance, pointed out that she had cited a Fox News source, she went apoplectic and denied the charge, calling me a liar, despite the ready evidence that she was full of s**t. How is it possible for any post to be worse than that?

Words cannot describe how disgusted I am with her behavior right now.


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 579

That One

*envisions a gala event, dozens upon dozens of persons conversing in a crowd. Blatherskite hears one voice expressing an opinion, that is blatantly obvious to everyone as a lie. Yet he feels the overwhelming need to leap forth and expound, vociferously, over-powering all other conversations, exactly HOW, WHY, WHEN and what colour-shade of a lie that it is. Quoting past historical references to other such lies, and then screams even louder because no one else was bothered*

*and doesn't even notice that he is the only one really looking foolish*


"Della Wars" Are they an issue for the community.

Post 580

azahar

Oh, I see the troll called * is back.

Best not to feed it, folks. smiley - ok

az


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