h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I came back as I noticed there were 100 new posts and wondered what had happened.

Some people asked where I had been judged, well I hadn't on a personal level but when you see comments like this

'I feel very sorry for your wife. It seems you don't love her after all. '

How can I not feel judged. Its seems to be the belief that if someone is unfaithful they do not love their partner anymore. Theres nothing more to say. We have a loving, non-jealous relationship which we are proud of. We have a relationship where we can talk about anything, including straying, and sometimes actually straying. Because we actually talk to each other though we know what it is really all about, a physical act of lust which shouldn't threaten your relationship if you really have trust and strength. According to some of you thats not love, well I beg to differ.

Was that directed at you, Kaz? Or was it to Bilbobilbo?

That is one big drawback of hootoo, it isn't always easy to tell who a particular comment is directed at.

It doesn't matter who it was directed at, it was the general consensus.

Kaz,

If you want to quote me out of context and then say that I was somehow insulting you then there is nothing I can do about that.

What you quoted was a direct response to Bilbo talking about how much he loved his wife but felt he was still going to cheat on her.

It had nothing to do with you.

We all believe different things when it comes down to being faithful to one's partner. My feelings, as I have said, are mostly based on my own chronic and massive insecurity. Yours are based on other things. They are different things. I was not comparing myself to you and I don't think others were either. In fact, I wasn't thinking about you at all when I made my postings. So if you have taken them personally then this is your own doing. It was certainly not any intention of mine to include you or your beliefs into any of my postings.

az

Kaz,
comments like the one you quoted were directed at Bilbobilbo, not at you. Your situations are very different in that you and moonglum went into your relationship with agreements about your approach to monogamy in place. You both knew the situation and how things stood - I haven't seen anything other than positive comments about your situation on this thread.

Bilbobilbo, in wanting to have an affair, wanted to change the 'rules' in his relationship unilaterally, and the concensus was that when his wife found out she would be immensely hurt. Anyone causing that much hurt deliberately, cannot really love the person they are hurting can they?

I think you need to be a little less defensive about yor arrangement with moonglum, nobody here was condemning that.


k

"holier than thou" remark

Well, quite. I'm sure many people who don't feel quite so moralistic about this one just didnt post...

It's like the underwear thread - very few people wearing grubby knicks reveal that (err....maybe I should rephrase )in a public space.

Therefore from the postings in that thread it appears that everybody always wears lovely fancy undergarments!

Can I just have a go at BB for the wind-up part? I hate practical jokes

Maybe I am just defensive because I have been told by people that my relationship is worth less, because we do not feel the need to be sexually monogomous. Moonglums friends tried to save him from me because of that very reason. But surely if you think that infidelity means that you don't love your partner anymore, then that is the same for all relationships. Why assume it for Bilbo, and then say you didn't mean it for anyone else?

But Kaz, the difference is that you and Moonglum have decided, together, that that is the way you want to do things - which indeed proves that you DO love and trust each other very much indeed. It works for you, you go for it! We were getting at Bilbobilbo not so much because he was thinking of having sex with someone not his wife, but because he'd be lying to his wife, doing it without her consent, not taking into account HER feelings and desires, and in a previously monogamous relationship, this is utterly unacceptable. You and Moonglum have a completely different situation going on in which you DO take account of each other's needs and feelings. You two have a good relationship, even if it is a little 'unusual', and it is worth as much as any good relationship in which the two love and trust each other. I take issue not with the multiple partner thing but with the lies, deceit and disparagement of the original partner as being 'mundane' and the new interest being all 'exciting' with no proper consideration or taking responsibility for one's own part in making the relationship dull.

All the best to Kaz and Moonglum and long may they be happy, 'their' way or any way!

I know a lot of gay male couples who have been together for years and are deeply in love, but are happy to be non monogamous. The idea is really that relationships are about more than just sex, and that while sex is imortant in a relationship that needn't be the only place it's found. This seems to work fine, one couple i know have been together over 15 years and are still deeply in love, even though they both have boyfriends outside of their relationships.

I find it interesting that I have met no female gay couples or straight couples who have managed the same thing, so nicely done, Kaz for getting it to work.

Sorry Lucky Star, I just could not resist.Looking at all the posts, I have started something I did'nt intend. At least one person seems Hurt and that is one too many. Bilbobilbo.

Oh how sweet of you to apologise - that I wasn't expecting!

hope your wife enjoys the flowers

One can only consider these things on a case by case basis, Kaz. It is quite clear that your situation is completely different from Bilbobilbo's as both situations are different from the ones I have been in.

I have had successful affairs with men in long-term relationships, but it takes skill on all sides to pull it off. As I said, (but may not have posted), you and Moonglum clearly exhibit such skill, as indeed to Kerr and Bruce.

Absolutely nothing that Bilbobilbo posted indicated that he and the floozie could pull that off. For that reason - despite it coming across as a change in my personal philosophy - I advised Bilbobilbo not to have the affair.

Indeed. A little bit of how's yer father with another pretty girl need not have any detrimentle effect on a relationship. Lies and deceit are certain to, even if you don't 'get found out'.

You do realise Bilbo that your wife is very liekly to want to know what you've done to initiate flower-giving?

I did say some time earlier, Kaz, that you must have a special relationship and I will add, one to be admired. To have that amount trust and openess is precious and rare, I think.

As long as two people have agreed, discussed and are both happy with the way a relationship develops then I have no argument with that. Changing the rules/paramenters without discussion or being entirely convinced that the other person is in complete accord is wrong and a betrayal in my view.

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_991480.html?menu=

Genetic link to monogomay found....in voles! And they managed to prove the link too!

Not commenting, just thought the story was somewhat appropriate!

I agree with that Caerwyn.

Love v lust - this is really what it's all about. For some people, sex & love are inextricably entwined, other see them separately or in varying degrees of linkage.

I see all your points now, yes Moonglum did know what he was getting with me and so deciet didn't enter into it. I do agree truth is very important in a relationship. I also think that being true to yourself has to come first to being true to anyone else.

Not many people agree with infidelity, so I speak up for it, as it can have a place. But I did take some comments far too aggressively. It is a very difficult subject.

In the past I certainly related sexual fidelity as essential, its only when I found someone I could trust and knew he understood that I relaxed. I fully understand the need for a bit of animal lust everynow and then and don't see why that has to threaten a relationship. It is better to accommodate it between the relationship though for health and safety issues.

I have been lucky though, I havn't strayed for 6 years, and yet I still need that rampant sex elsewhere, how does she do it then, I hear you ask? My dreams!! I have such rampant, horny dreams, in which I orgasm as well. I wake up and look at Moonglum a bit embarrassed, having an affair is one thing, but having it in bed whilst your other half is asleep is another thing!!

I do rise to the bait a lot, anyone seen Big Brother, I think I like Kitten a bit. I fight to protect the rights of those people who do not even want me to protect them. Everyone hated Kitten, but I saw myself in her, I am not so full on now, but I am still annoying. Hopefully I will learn some patience, compassion and understanding from this!

I have understood complete insecurity in my time, I am lucky that in this one area I have met someone who lets me be me, so completely. I do have sympathy for those who are insecure, I am insecure in many aspects of my life. I would like to apologise to Az, you be insecure and get a man who understands that. We have gone up against each other a lot lately, I don't know why. I do like you a lot, but sometimes my impatience takes over. If we lived near each other I reackon we may have hit each other by now, or ended up making love?!!

Maybe I went too far with that last thought! I'll get my coat!

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Well, not likely Kaz, on either account. I'm not the sort that hits anyone and - at least so far - I've never wanted to have sex with another woman.

Anyhow, no need to apologise really, I just find it awkward when people quote me out of context and then expect me to defend something I hadn't actually said in the first place, if you know what I mean.

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Still one of my dreams, Kaz. I hope it comes true one day.

az

<<Love v lust - this is really what it's all about. For some people, sex & love are inextricably entwined, other see them separately or in varying degrees of linkage.>>

Which reminds me of another thread some of you might be interested in: F19585?thread=435232

The old love/lust thing.

az

I've just ploughed through the backlog. Fun stuff.

If ever I feel the urge to stray I'm coming right back here and reading this thread. It's got a lot to say about committment, communication and respect. Good thread, folks, and a great store of wisdom.