h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Just to add my 35-and-a-half-cents-worth....

"Researchers from Oxford University in Oxford, England, have identified seven ancestral matriarchal groups from which all Europeans appear to be descended. These maternal clans form the root of a family tree that has sprouted millions of individuals."

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/daughters000420.html

I doubt very much that those originating 7 families were what we, in our day and age, could define as racially distinct. Any racial distinctness developed as a result of natural adaptation to environment, as well as interbreeding and extra-breeding over millions of years.

As someone who comes from a Irish, Scottish, American Indian, Albanian, French, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, German, Pictish, Norman, etc., etc., etc., etc., background, whose step-father was Parsi from Bombay, and who married a Canadian Aboriginal whose background includes Irish, English, and German, I can't say I particularily object to "breeding" between "races".

In regards to an earlier posting regarding the "instigator" of this conversation not being out-and-out insulting or derogeroty in other postings.... Having been the butt of one of "Purdy's" "opinions". It is easy to say unkind things in postings if you slap a few smileys on them. I couldn't be bothered reading anything else they have to say.

There are some people who just like to "drop bombs" in a room and then sit back and watch the destruction.

They must be pretty disappointed at how this thread has turned out then

"There are some people who just like to "drop bombs" in a room and then sit back and watch the destruction."

Then I hope if any such people are reading they are bored and disappointed by the really rather civilised discussion which has ensued...


H.

Great minds, kelli

H.

And fools

Baffle them with intelligent responses, eh?

That is exactly what I think we should do with racists. Give them intelligents answers. H2G2 is hoepfully about getting rid of ignorance, not ignorants.

Hi. Post 40 is still the best at summing up thse situation. If we weren't intended to "interbreed" then it wouldn't be biologically possible. Mother Nature is pretty good about that sort of thing.

Thought I'd just say that I was also the recipient of one of Purdy's unkind remarks. I laughed it off - thinking that perhaps I was misunderstanding her intentions. Then I checked out her PS. Now I'm not so sure.

Will go back to lurking.

hi xanatic,

What shall we do with racists? Interesting thought. My father was a total racist (though he ended up marrying two Indian - oops sorry, canadian aboriginal - women). Perhaps to maintain his pathetic sense of 'superiority'? Who knows? And at this point, at least for me, who cares?

Strange how things work out within families however. Out of six siblings only one ended up becoming a racist just like dear ol' dad. The rest - although suffering quite a bit of abuse of the supposed righteous catholic sort (warped though it was) - have ended up being more or less 'normal'. Some now are quite into getting into their Indian roots (SORRY - I just can't use the term aboriginal canadian). Whatever.

I grew up in a place where even looking somewhat Indian was a source of 'shame' (and shame on all of those who perpetrated that!) and now it seems like everyone with the slightest drop of Indian blood is wanting to get on the 'Aboriginal Canadian' bandwagon. It's now become quite fashionable. Again - whatever.

Was it Abraham Lincoln who said (paraphrasing madly here) that the best way to defeat an enemy is to make them you friend?

Oh wait a minute - just found a better quote.

Always forgive your enemies, nothing annoys them so much. (dear old Oscar Wilde).

Personally, if I don't punch a racist in the face I think I'm doing quite well myself. (ooooooh, just ONE clean shot! that's all I ask!)

I maintain that anyone with even the slightest sense of humanity could never think that people from different backgrounds as ever being either superior of inferior. I almost added 'the slightest bit of intelligence' there, but then remembered that apparently Hitler was quite intelligent.

For me, even as a kid, I only had to look at my loser father sitting on the sofa with his beer and ranting about 'all the stupid pakis' or whatever his diatribe for the day was and think to myself - "ummmm, so WHAT makes YOU so darned 'superior'???"

It's just so ugly. And angry. Perhaps racists should be pitied? I don't think so. But I also won't say what I think their fate should be as then this posting will be monitored and eliminated.

az

"We found that one group of 55 chimpanzees had twice the genetic variability of all humans."
Pascal Gagneux, evolutioary biologist at University of California at San Diego.

A coupla months back I went to the rather controversial "Bodyworlds" exhibition. http://www.koerperwelten.de/en/home.asp

Actual, honest-to-goodness flayed corpses, dissected and posed for public edification.

I think every racist should be taken round that exhibition, because it shows humans for what they really are - collections of bone, sinew, muscle and all the rest. And I'm sure it's not intentional, but one of the lessons *I* took away from it was:

We ALL look like this.

The process in most cases removes the skin, so ethnicity is impossible to determine for the onlooker. So you're left just looking at people.

Bruce Lee was interviewed on television once, and asked (rather impertinently I thought) whether he considered himself a Chinese man, or an American. He replied that he considered himself a human being. I liked that answer. The interviewer looked a bit baffled, I seem to remember.

H.

(living in brackets in respect of post 153)

That's a good answer. Definitely.

I have been looking for a copy of "1066 and All That" for years....

My mother had copies of that and "Home Swet Homes" "From Pillar to Post" when I was a child and someone stole them. Even as a child, I loved to read the mangled history in "1066". Winnie ille Pu (Winnie the Pooh in Latin)was another title that got "liberated".

"From Pillar to Post" was the Home Decorating version, examining history through the Living Room (Sitting Room) throught the ages.... Very funny books.

Actually, I would give my eye-teeth to find copies of them. They are out of print in North America.

they're in print in this country, apparently - amazon (.co.uk) reckon they'll dispatch within 24 hours

...I mean, 1066 and all that is in print.

Yes. Sadly, the others are out of print....

Unfortunately, getting a copy of "1066" sent from the UK to Canada will cost me a small fortune. At the moment I don't have a fortune large OR small...

I will have to ask my friend who is heading overseas to pick me up one if she can (the book not the fortune....).

Just back from seeing "About Schmidt," so, out of the loop for a few hours, so forgive me for backtracking to Azahar's entry 169. It raises the question of how one handles racism.

At the moment, one of the worst areas where systematic abuse on a racial basis is totally entrenched is in Tibet, where the colonial Chinese occupiers of Tibet literally despise the indigenous Tibetan "natives," ( sound familiar? ) as barbarians. The "Han" Chinese have an extraordinary record for racism, fully as "well-developed" as that of whitey to other colours in the West. Chinese terms for foreigners range from "guailo" which literally translates as "white ghost person" to "big noses," "round-eyed foreign devils," and "red-furred barbarians." The Chinese word for Tibet, "Xizang Zhizou" translates as "western treasure basket," but the "Xi" in "Xizang" implies "grassland" i.e., uncivilised in its western-ness!

My point, however, is how one ideally responds to racists. Azhahar would like to throw a clean punch. As a recipient of racist shaming/taunts ( in childhood, if I've understood her aright ), who can blame her?

However, here is an extraordinary alternative from an extraordinary human being, a Tibetan, I met, here in Dublin a few years ago. His name is Palden Gyatso, you may have read his biography. For 33 years he was a prisoner of the Chinese, and was brutally, monotonously tortured, including having such severe electric shocks to the mouth that all his teeth fell out, and that shortly before his release, aged 66.

When asked how he survived the abuse, he said he practised Tonglen on his torturers, and offered up his suffering for all sentient suffering beings. ( I think I will submit a Guide entry on Tonglen, it's a very powerful technique for transforming the negative energies we encounter. Briefly described as exchanging negative for positive energy.) He said that doing the practise turned the pain "into a kind of coldness" and allowed him space to see the pain of his torturers. He is one of the most extraordinary people I've ever met. He is still very angry, very forceful about what the Chinese are doing to his countrymen, but as a way of surviving unimaginable abuse with his humanity intact, his story is unparalleled.

HH The Dalai Lama has spoken of his practising Tonglen on China as a whole.

So, my point is that in dealing with racists, one central aspect is how one deals with one's own negative responses. I remember a rather good quote about this, " Oh Lord, bless him/her, and change me." And then deal with the racism. As Hoovooloo pointed out, education is the answer, realising that we are all flayed corpses under our gloriously varied skins.

hi chai,

The 'one clean shot' thing was a bit of a joke - of course I don't see physical violence as a way of combatting . . . well, anything.

Education is clearly the answer.

But if one is dealing with the sort of people who could ever . . . oh, I'm going to get lost here. I reckon those people are mostly 'lost' anyhow and I don't see how anyone could ever reason with them.

As for the very heart-breaking story about PG, I can well imagine that after so many years of unrelenting torture he would come to accept a rather exceptional way of coping in order to survive.

He turned his pain into 'a sort of coldness' - that sounds familiar.

When I was quite small I was sexually abused on quite a regular basis - I also found a way to separate myself from the horror that was happening to me. It was instinctual. Total out-of-body experience stuff. Like - this could not be happening to ME - so I found a way to separate myself from my body. It was the only way I could survive all that stuff. I was maybe five years old.

Unlike PG, I had no feeling to 'offer up my suffering for all sentient suffering beings'. I mean, well, good for him that he could do this. On the other hand, I was only five.

One must be careful about talking about this sort of thing, I think.

It's all well and good to look at a wonderful example like PG - I take nothing away at all from his experience and his method of coping. But this is NOT the only way to go with this sort of thing.

I reckon I had been to hell and back again, many times, at an age when I had no way of understanding what was happening to me or why. I truly could not understand why the people I loved the most - my parents! - were treating me in such a terrible manner.

So, nope. Sorry, feel no need at all to offer up my suffering for anything. Especially not for them. On the other hand, I don't hate them, rather I now pity them. But that's a whole other kettle of fish.

Meanwhile, you say that PG is still angry. Well, can't blame him. I bet he sometimes wants to punch idiots in the face though, like myself, he would never actually do this (but ohhhhh, the fantasy is quite a good one sometimes).

You see, people who have never known this sort of thing can look at other people's responses and say this or that about it. I have no idea what Tonglen is. No doubt it is quite a good thing. But - so? It works for some, I am sure.

What works for me, what I have totally learned from my own experience is that I will never knowingly ever hurt another living being for as long as I live. Because I know what 'seriously hurt' feels like and I wouldn't wish that on even my worst enemy.

But please allow me the occasional 'just want to punch that jerk in the face' fantasy. Because I think I am allowed that.

As for

Yes, sounds lovely. But you try it. Anyhow, there is no lord to bless these people - they already sinned so much against the god within themselves that they will never be whole or real again. And one might pity that (as I pity my parents) but that's about as far as that goes as far as I'm concerned.

Hey - I WAS changed. I was changed so much that I don't even want to think about it most of the time. I don't know why I am not left filled with hatred. But in fact, I'm not. The thing I am most thankful for is that I am still capable of loving. You see - they didn't take that away from me.

az

Proably the closest analogy in Christianity to the practice of Tonglen is "Hate the sin but love the sinner"....

Interestingly enough, many of the Tibetan people I have met, and some I know very well, have experienced great hardship and yet manage to maintain a peaceful nature. My mother returned from Nepal recently and said that both the Nepali and the Tibetan people she encountered were extremely kind and friendly (excluding the group of young men who stole her wallet a few days before she came home).

I have since been corresponding with a young man who teaches Tibetan history and culture to the young monks in the Pullahari Monasetry in Boudah. The Pullahari Monastery is where the Karmapa Lama* now resides. My friend seems inordinately happy despite having made his escape from Tibet and not having seen his family in 6 years, as a result.

Like most of the expatriot Tibetans he is chosing to make it his life's work to teach the children in the monastery about their heritage in hopes that they will one day return and their hertiage will not be lost despite the best efforts of the Chinese government.


*H.H. The 17th Karmapa Lama escaped from Tibet in the dead of winter of 1999/2000. The Chinese had been trying to turn his inherited position to their own ends. They have now installed a young man they claim is the "real" Karmapa and have denounced the one recognized by HH, the Dalai Lama and the delegation that led the initial search for the reincarnation of the 13th Karmapa Lama.