h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Race relations have come a long way in a reasonably short period of time, but we're obviously not there yet. Good luck explaining a nonsensical issue to your tot!

The whole "where do baby's come from" question is dependant on whether your mail is delivered into a box or through a slot.

The color thing with children is easier to deal with if you actually belong to a dominant culture of some kind. In which case, let him watch Lenny Henry, but with the sound off. Don't let him watch Benny Hill at all.
See, when I was growing out, I lived around a 50/50 population.
There was racism, but it was in common. A lot of the 50 kinda feared and hated the other 50. I was afraid of them all.
A redneck is a redneck, no matter what color.

I think the tack that I have taken with my daughter, wherein I tell her to try a lot of things and not to let anyone tell her that her sex or color is really important to her skill level.
Her grandmother is a white bigot with the antiquated sex stereotypes of forty years ago still buzzing around in her brain, but she will admit one thing. Wearing high heels for fifty years was stupid. She wishes for her old arches and her old back.
My daughter thinks racism is kinda silly because she can't imagine anyone else but Lavarre Burton doing Reading Rainbow.

Babies - tell the truth - babies grow inside Mummys from a seed that Daddies plant - look for pregnant animals to show them - cats, dogs, etc and if possible let them see the babies being born or soon after.

Race and other labels. Tell them that some people can't handle anything different to themselves, so if they're a boy they think girls are stupid, if they're thin they think fat is bad, if they're white they think any other colour is bad, if they're tall they think short is bad. There is a name for people who have this problem - we call them stupid bigots.

This next bit is optional, but I would go for it. (Course - I'm white, so know nothing on the race side - my problem was ginger hair.)

So if anyone calls you a name because you are different, you can tell them they are a stupid bigot, and tell them to ask their Daddy what it means.

Ahh, that way might lead to a black eye or a lawsuit.
Even bigots have rights, these days.
I think they are protected under the Hire The Handicapped statutes.

Or, the "If they're too stupid to find the bus station, then they are unlikely to understand anyone who can find the airport and leave the old neighborhood" statute.

Quite possibly the worst thing about racism is that intelligent people ever have to take it seriously.

I mean, okay, obviously back in Nazi Germany it truly NEEDED to be taken extrememly seriously.

And okay, of course there are huge amounts of racial tension in various countries now, which often ends up in totally unfair and horrific life or death situations. Solely based on 'my race is better than your race!' It would be laughable if the results were not so heart-breaking.

BUT, if one is not being threatened with personal physical violence, then I think this is a good opportunity to totally laugh at racists and show them up for exactly what they are. Total nobodies.

They are clowns. Sad pathetic clowns. If only for the fact that they think they are superior to anyone. I mean, how sad is that? Also, how pathetic? Also, one only needs to look at them to see that they are not exactly the creme de la creme - far from it.

These people are total NOBODY's. They gave up their right to be a part of the human family when they decided their family was better than the rest of us.

I mean, logically, does this make any sense at all? You are a lovely, talented, intelligent and caring person. But because your skin is not WHITE you suddenly are worthless to the world? Like, who on earth - even someone with less than half a brain - would even remotely consider this to be possible???

The mind reels.

PYT is a total coward - they all are. These types who think they are 'better' even though it is so plainly obvious that they are only just beginning to evolve. I'll bet PYT can't even play the banjo!

And now we have to explain to our children that this sort of warpo thinking is NOT right? And they get hurt by other kids who make them feel ashamed of their skin colour?

Now I totally laugh at these idiots. I couldn't laugh at all when I was nine, however.

On the plus side, these kids will hopefully grow up to feel proud of who they are. And they will have learned the lesson that ANYONE who ever tries to put you down is not worth even two seconds of your very valuable time.

az
(ranting again and will no doubt feel silly for it later)

Rant away azahar, we don't mind.

I only hope that when I have my own children, I can teach them to look beyond skin colour. Every person has their own worth that has nothing to do with what they look like. In the school yard this goes even beyond colour. The child whose parents can't afford the designer clothes, the girl who isn't pretty, the boy who can't play sports, all are discriminated against. It is a sad state of affairs, but unfortunately one that children have to deal with. Children have to be given a strong sense of pride in themselves and the only way I can see of doing this is to celebrate the strengths inherent within them. It's hard to make a 9 year old see the opinions of their peers doesn't matter. It's only what you think of yourself that will get you through life.

Imagine what it is like for an undiagnosed child with Asperger's who knows that something isn't quite right, but he can't tell if it's him or them.
Now imagine that he is white and he has people asking him,"What could possibly be wrong with you? You have all the advantages!"

Bigotry against bigots is still bigotry and if the bigots are white, then that itself becomes racism, because it becomes that much easier to believe that every white has a tendency toward bigotry.
And if you are white yourself and think that the default position is bigotry then you are proving your own point.

I have heard people in Sunday Schools talk about "tolerance" as if it were a subversive idea. "Multi-culturism" has become a dirty word.
Maybe it's because too many people are telling us what they are against and not enough are telling us what they are for.

Viva La Difference!

hi tonsil,

I was quite obese as a child (slimmer now, thanks!) and some other kids were either physically or mentally 'challenged' (shall I say?) Which made me and them the butt of many cruel jokes. I was also part Indian and ALWAYS the first in my class (straight A's). Which then made other kids resent me because I was the fat half-breed Indian kid who was 'somehow' way smarter than them.

Of course you don't have to be white to be a bigot. Just watch any Spike Lee film (oh boy! am I ever going to get it for saying that!). I know people from various cultures and 'classes' who - for some bizarre reason or other - think they are somehow superior to others.

Joke's on them, isn't it?

Tolerance means that, well, ummm - we are tolerant. Though I've personally never felt a necessity to 'tolerate' other people just because they had a different skin colour, were from a different culture or were somehow physically 'challenged' (truly hate this PC lingo).

For me tolerance was never an issue. People are people. I've never cared a flying f**k about what someone looked like - only about who they were. And I'm talking about even when I was nine years old. 'Luckily' my totally racist father 'taught' me at a very early age that the very last thing I ever wanted to be was someone like him.

As I said earlier to someone on this thread - we teach best by example.

I could not have had better teachers - better examples of the last thing I ever wanted to be - than my own parents. I know they didn't mean to, but in fact, they did 'teach' me to never, ever, ever, want to be anything like them. And for that, at least, I shall always be grateful.

azahar

(very proudly a hippie nerdo mutt!)

I am reminded of a situation which exemplifies the case of someone not looking beyond first impressions and applying their utter ignorance... and looking like a complete idiot on so many levels.

One day when I worked at Chapters (bookstore), a number of people were lined up waiting for the cash. Two or three cashiers were processing the customers. My friend called to the next person in line and said "I can help you here."

He looked up and sort of hesitated and then indicated that the next person in line could go first... "Are you sure?" she asked.

"Yes... It's okay. I'll wait for another cashier. I don't do well with the mentally retarded".

Now... First of all... He was serious....

Secondly, he said it loud enough for her, the other cashiers, and the line of customers to hear.

Thirdly, he wasn't saying it just to be insulting... although it was.

Fourthly, the cashier was not mentally retarded. She IS small and roundish but doesn't in any way have any features which would lead someone to even suspect such a thing.

Finally, if she did have Downs Syndrome (which he was inferring she did) it should have been evident that she wouldn't have been there if she wasn't capable of doing the job. People with Downs Syndrome are industrious, honest, hardworking, and many are quite capable of doing many jobs, including being a cashier.

Not only did he embarrass her, make her wonder what he based his stupid idea upon, and upset the other customers who felt really badly for her, make himself look like a complete and utter git.... if she had Downs Syndrome he would have hurt her and have embarrassed her. This didn't seem to concern him as he didn't bother to whisper this. I suppose he thought eveyone in the line would somhow understand.

As it was, several customers buttonholed him and told him what a git he was.

Actually, if she'd been a High Level Downs Syndrome, she probably would have smiled at him and treated him like everybody else.

With my particular problems, I probably shouldn't have been allowed to run a register in retail, but I have done it on and off for over a decade, and I have had customers ask me if there was someone else who knew what they were doing better than I do.
I told them,"Yes, the person who hired me was here, but he's gone home. He knows what he's doing so much better than me that he got tired of doing it and needed a little rest. He'll be back again tomorrow, if you'd like to do your business then. Otherwise, I will do my best to help you and I assure you that I am aware of my inadequacy."

On the other hand, I have been having a serious problem with language in my recent dealings with shop personnel. I speak in complete sentences and enunciate and many of them don't. It's not just kids. Many adults seem to miss the point that the tiniest bit of professionalism might make their job prospects a bit brighter. And a good practicing place for professional communication skills might be where they work now.

I once had to find several wool blankets for giving as gifts after a smudging at the Museum. I called around asking for "wool blankets".

I don't know if I pronounce wool in some unusual way... certainly no one has ever commented on it.... but I kept getting weird reactions.

"Wall blankets?"

"No, wool blankets...."

"I don't know what kind of blanket you are looking for..."

"Wooool blankets."

"Wul blankets?"

"Wooooollll! As in sheep's wool, fur from a sheep, knitted... baaaaaaa, woooool"

"Ohhhhh! You mean WOOL blankets!"

Strangely, wool blankets seemed have gone the way of the boot-button and spats.... not one single store in town carried them!

Nowadays they are found at Military Surplus stores and possibly Oxfam...

I have often gone asking for something and had some person on the phone or at the store ask me,"Well, what do you want it for?"
When I tell them, they say,"Oh, we don't have anything for that purpose here."
Then I have to explain that while that is what the object or tool is normally used for, I have a different purpose in mind.
Then they ask,"Well, why would anyone want to do that?"

I spent three days driving around or on the phone, asking for a dead-blow or shot hammer.

When I finally found one, the department clerk had already told me he'd never heard of one...

Azahar, it's heartening to hear what you have to say as my boys are in the same position you're in (although my oldest is as skinny as a rake, my second is .... "prosperous" as they say in India). I'm Indian, my husband's not.

Thank you all for the different suggestions. I think I could put into practice a lot of them if my child were a little older. He IS exceptionally bright, but he is also only 3 & 1/2 yrs old. I don't want to shatter his world too early, but I also don't want to hide the truth from him (which is why he got an honest, if not detailed, answer to the "where do babies come from" question a couple of weeks ago -- er, for those of you wondering, yes I did the "babies come from little seeds inside a Mummy's belly and Daddy has to help to put the seed in there, then it grows and grows till it's big enough to come out and see the world just like your little brother did" approach).

My problem is not that he thinks of others in a demeaning way because of what they can't do. I've managed to instil in him the desire to focus on what people CAN do (because, hell if you didn't, you'd become despondent about the whole human race!). The problem I face is that, at this tender age, he is already facing bigotry and racism in what should otherwise be a happy, relaxed environment (the playground). Unfortunately, this is compounded because kids are brutal in their language use. They haven't yet learned diplomacy or tact and sometimes (that's a qualifier) don't understand how hurtful they can be (some kids know just how hurtful they can be and do it for effect).

My quandry is that I want to teach him how to be able to judge who is being hurtful and purposefully ignorant and who is simply mouthing what they've heard in other contexts (usually from parents), while not forcing him to grow up and deal with complex, adult problems too soon. I want him to know that there are still some people worth knowing despite the fact that they may initially (out of fear of the "other") make stupid or (what could be construed as) racist comments -- and don't get on my case about this, I'm talking about my personal experiences. Basically, I'd like him to be able to figure out when it's worth fighting the battle and when to just walk away (he doesn't deal with threats physically.... he just stares other kids down till they back away, usually cowering -- it's such a neat trick and I wish I knew where he and his brother got that from!), but at the same time, I don't want him to HAVE to fight "the battle" at such a young age!

Am I being unrealistic about expecting him to have a more innocent childhood? For heaven's sake, we live in remote Australia.... it's not like we live in a big city! Or do I just have to bite the bullet and teach him more about the nasty parts of the world (he already knows he shouldn't go into friends' houses if we don't know their parents and/or aren't there too because there are "bad people in this world who can and will hurt you")? Oh help.

minimeas

Children can understand a lot at an early age, but they must be allowed to parrot other people's attitudes for a while! How many of us keep the attitudes we had (or tried on) at the age of 4? 8? 12? even 16? Kids are allowed talk the talk and not be taken for hardened believers!

The important thing is to keep talking to them, so that somewhere in their lives (and prominent, even if they don't show any reaction) is a model of calm rationality.

Tonsil Revenge is a perfect model of speaking non-aggressively from a standpoint of informed confidence.

When my son was very young (3 or 4 ?) he wanted to know some of the finer details about babies and race... when he were sitting in a doctor's surgery. More specifically, as I was flicking through an old magazine, he saw an ad for a pregnant Barbie doll (with a hinged stomach that opened to let the baby out). He was focussing on how the baby actually gets out... Naturally, the other people in the waiting room were all discretely but attentively listening as I tried to stick to the truth in terms appropriate to his understanding. I was so glad when we were finally able to turn the page to... an article about prostitution in SE asia. He wanted to know whether the "girls" were Chinese... great a geography lesson (the big coutries, the small countries making up Asia), a much easier subject for the waiting room.
He started looking round the waiting room and wanted to know how you could "tell" where someone came from, whether his European-born black friend was European or African (no doubt inspired by the lady opposite), whether people from South Asia were Asian in the same way as people from East Asia (young lady to left)....

By this time, no-one was even pretending not to listen and people were smiling their support. One woman (probably quite a complicated heritage) seemed disappointed not to be "analysed" ... the waiting room had become a family!

"Tonsil Revenge is a perfect model of speaking non-aggressively from a standpoint of informed confidence."

Hmm... I might put that on my resume...

That's only because I think when I type. The same might not often be said of when I speak. I swear a lot less online than I do in RL.
Of course, I am enameled of my own voice...

I have had similar experiences to those related with my daughter.
Her mother is a Native Texan who is filled with a mixture of late-hippy sensibility and middle class, um, "whatever"-ness.

I often have to deal with the spousal unit's belaying tactics with the child and moderate a strange sort of game show that involves quite a bit of "Whose Line Is It, Anyway?" and "Jeopardy, the High School Champions".

The child has become interested in world cultures and has learned that "Asia" is not filled with people who can only be referred to in perjorative terms.
The unit, on the other hand, still things of Korea as a county of Vietnam, which is another name for China or Japan.
Despite having many fellow employees from the Philipines and Nigeria, she has trouble escaping from the "those people" mode of speech.
Sadly, I think a lack of any perceptible form of "culture" helps keep people ignorant of "other cultures".

I met someone at school who thought different human species shouldn't breed because different animal species didn't?!

Wonder if she ever learnt?

I do get fed-up at the people who always seperate humans from animals. As for human races being different species, go learn some basic biology! Red and grey squirrels don't mate because they are different species, what do they teach in school nowadays!

Hi Mudhooks,

Re: wall blankets.

When I lived in Bristol people often chose to not understand me, even though we were presumably speaking the same language. And I don't even have a typical Canadian accent - I think it's more a 'mid-Atlantic' sort of accent. Anyhow . . .

One day went into a little corner shop to buy a soft drink and then asked the woman if she had a straw.

woman: excuse me?

me: a straw, do you have straws?

woman: I'm sorry?

me: I'd like a straw for my drink if you have any.

woman: I'm sorry, I don't quite understand.

Eventually I had to mime sticking something into the can of whatever it was (must have been a mad moment anyhow, I almost never drink soft drinks) and the woman's eyes lit up and she said:

'Oh, you mean a straaow.'

I mean, okay, I probably pronounce that word sounding more like 'stra', but you know, huge f**king leap there. Like, what on earth else would I have been asking for after just having bought a soft drink that sounded really really close to straaow?

I have an English friend in Salamanca who has lived there for 25 years and works as a translator at the university. So obviously, he is totally fluent. But he's told me that if he ever walks into a bar where the people don't know him (very few of those left ) often the barmen assume that because he is obviously foreign that they won't be able to understand him - and so they don't. Even though his Spanish is perfect.

Go figure.

az

A bit of a non-sequitur I suppose but entirely on topic, these are the lyrics from South Pacific (Music: Richard Rodgers Lyrics: Oscar Hammerstein II):

You've Got To Be Carefully Taught

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!

It may seem trite almost a half century later, but I thoroughly believe in the sentiment. No one is born with hate for different races or religions or ways.