h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

bonjour loup,

I never said 'turn the other cheek' or treat the a**holes with 'kid gloves'. Only that while blasting them be careful to focus on their thoughts and deeds, not them as a person.

Of course inciting others to also think the way they do is a terrible thing. On the other hand, the people being incited also have a personal choice to make. I don't think that in general it's possible to 'trick' people into believing things or behaving in a manner that these 'decent' people would not want. Though of course, having said that, Nazi Germany springs to mind.

You also have said - 'they won't listen to reason'. Well, this is because they are not reasonable people. They are sick in the head, man! As well as being sick in their hearts and souls. They are also mostly cowards and so though they might spew their nastiness out of their mouths they will also mostly back down when presented with someone stronger than them (which is almost everbody else).

Fortunately, most racists have the rather low intellect of our good friend PYT. If this person has children then I certainly pity THEM. But as I said here before, I was brought up by a racist father. All that made me do was love him less and totally question HOW ON EARTH someone like him could ever think himself 'superior' to anybody! It just did not compute - even when I was nine years old.

Shall repeat the Dickens quote for you in case you missed it:

'Pity their ignorance and despise them'.

az

Hi Recumbentman .

"You say man is unique in *formulating justifications for* his bad behaviour . . . can't argue with that."

Agreed, but man also creates opportunities for and participates in this destructive behaviour. "It bain't be natural Mr Frodo sir".

I am afraid I agree to an extent with Azahar, in that there are people who want and like being racist and racialist. People who, though indubitably intelligent, enjoy the feeling of superiority.

I have met such people when I was an Anti-Nazi-League organiser in the late seventies, and again amongst the Japanese in the eighties and nineties.

These people are not awaiting enlightenment, as far as they are concerned they've already had their 'Road to Damascus' moment. What these people are doing is trying to find justification for their beliefs. They have an agenda and are highly motivated. Their motivation is fuelled by self-interest, feelings of inferiority and that they have been prejudiced against in their 'own patch'. Anything you say that casts doubt on this doesn't dismay them it merely makes you an apologist or sympathiser with the ones they hate and blame.

Practically the only force in our society that has been strong enough to bring someone back from this psychological dead end is religious conversion. The Police, the Courts and the Prisons, Psychiatry, Social Services and Politicians have all failed to curb the growth of it.

It can be reduced, though not eliminated, by education. From experience of going to school on the borders of Southall in the seventies I can tell you that despite the best efforts of enlightened teachers, and the example of the normality of asian and black kids all around them, white children from racist homes mostly became racist adults themselves.

The progression from being racist (one who believes) to racialist (one who acts) is a frightening one. Once you believe that another person is somehow not human or at least not the same level of human, then all morals and ethics governing interpersonal behaviour in our society are null and void. Would you shoot a human who you believed held some threat to you and your family? Would you shoot a dog? This is the distinction they make, with those they hate falling out of the human category.

Scary times indeed.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

azahar

I lived for ten years in central Toronto, in the 'druggy' and prostitute neighbourhood and never once - even coming home at 4 in the morning - experienced any nasty violence. I never once felt threatened or at personal risk there.

Then I moved to Bristol and learned to be afraid. I was not only quite violently mugged in the street once, but there was also this underlying sense of violence happening there all the time, something I had never experienced before. At the end of my street there was an all-night garage and one night a black person got his face cut up with a broken beer bottle by drunken yobs while going out for a pack of ciggies at 2 in the morning. And why? Oh, cos he was black! There were also four of them and one of him. F**king cowards!

Math, I still think I never said people 'want or like' being racists - at least not at heart, not before they have been conditioned to be this way and then decide to take that route themselves. Okay *then*, after that they totally get into it. I'm just saying that I don't think this is something that one is born with, though I may be wrong as it seems I am wrong about so many things.

But anyhow, that's part of the reason I am here - to learn stuff.

To me, these people seem so totally cut off from themselves, and from the god inside of them - really, it's a very sad thing. Their lives must be truly bleak.

Math - you also hit the nail on the head when you pointed out that the racist's motivation comes from feelings of 'inferiority'.

Don't get me wrong, okay? I'm not saying we should accept these people's ideas at all. But they are still somewhat human. Who disagrees with me on that? And so, rather than tell them that THEY are total a**holes, it just seems more exact to tell them that their behaviour is reprehensible and this makes them seem like complete a**holes.

And if that don't work - punch em in the face! haahahhaaahhaaa

(kidding, but man, that fantasy does work for me at times!)

az

Thought you would like to read this... http://www.philosophyslam.org/vin_fin.html

Beautiful article -- comes across fresh and 'as experienced'.

I would echo it with:-- that sharp and ruthless dissecter of human nature, Marcel Proust, came to the conclusion that the outstanding human feature is kindness.

And yes Math, I'm still agreeing with you, except I persist in saying that the racist is awaiting enlightenment. May take several generations . . .

I don't want to claim any special knowledge, never having seen anything first-hand in the way of racial violence. I am Irish, a subsection of European, and have several darker-skinned nephews, nieces, grandnieces. A blended humanity looks mighty good to me.

What is it about Canada? Michael Moore found them getting so many things right, that are screwed up in the USA!

I particularly liked "Braver souls will admit that the nature of humankind is good."

Let's start promoting bravery...

It's partly that we have better marketing people

Actually, there's a very interesting article on Canadian Society by Gwyn Dyer in Canadian Geographic a few years ago. In it Dyer talks about the present ethnic make up of Canada which closely parallels the global ethnic make up. He points out that Canada has gone from a hugely white society to a mostly rainbow society in just thirty years, without much of the racial violence that we associate with integration in the U. S. I can't remember what he suggested to be the reason that we get along so well, but I do remember that he suggests that Pierre Trudeau, who introduced the immigration changes that lead to the demographic changes, knew exactly where the changes would lead. Dyer also suggests that Trudeau's prime motivation was to remove the disunifying influence of Quebecois nationalism by making Canada into a cultural mosaic instead of two solitudes.

I don't know why we seem to get it right. But I like it here.

thanks for the compliment, Recumbentman

hi Recumbantman,

Oh gosh, talking about Michael Moore's film - totally loved it.

But I found his take on Canadians (I am Canadian, well, I was born there and spent my first 33 years living there) a bit much! I mean, it was a bit much in a totally totally and supremely nice way (found myself blushing whilst watching the film - hey are we Canadians REALLY that nice?)

The main thing about Canadians is that they - we? - are not nationalistic at all. We are a nation full of other peoples and cultures, and unlike the 'US melting pot' most people in Canada with other origins (like practically everybody, except in the past the Indians, oops, sorry, aboriginal canadians, who are now finally being given their moment to do this) really hold onto their cultures. Which is what makes Canada a multi-cultural society rather than a 'melting pot'. It's quite refreshing, really.

Also, for some strange reason I have never understood - like, why has this never happened? - we are not an aggressive or violent people, per se. I mean, Canada is a country just like all other countries. Except, there has never been this sense of 'being a Canadian' means . . . well, anything in particular. We are just Canadians. And I think most of us are quite happy with that. Nothing to prove really.

Canada also ends up always being in the 'top 3' in the annual list of countries with the highest global standard of living.

But I did find Michael Moore's concept of Canada a wee bit airy-fairy if you know what I mean. That NOBODY ever locks their front doors. Well, in fact, I think most people do (would be kinda stupid not to) though perhaps he meant they don't feel a need to lock their doors when someone is at home, which I think is often quite true.

I liked his take on America being a country based in FEAR, which is why so many people there feel and react the way they do (and not without reason, of course). But also the way the media there feeds the public with all this FEAR stuff.

Anyhow, Recumbant, if you want to ask a bunch of Canadians for a much better answer than I can give, go to my personal page and click on the 'Chief Gordon Lightfoot' thread. There are plenty of very nice people there who will be happy to inform you all about Canada and Canadians.



az

hi anhaga,

Oh, Trudeau - our very own national hero. He also put the FLQ in their place rather smartly at the risk of public retaliation.

'Just watch me' - remember that one?

He also made Canada a bit 'sexy' for awhile. Gosh, I did cry when he died.

az

I've realsied that i never got round to mentioning one of my experiences.

I remember once i was having a drink with my then-girlfriend, a delightful Afriucan-American who had moved to England when her family rel;ocated, and once in a bar, a skinhead came up and satrted calling her a p*ki. She looked him in the eye and said "not only are you racist, you're also an imbecile. I'm not a p*ki, I'm a n****r."

The racist idiot opened and shut his mouth a few times, with no noise coming out, and then left.

The only other time I saw someone racially abuse her it went like this.

"you should go back to Africa where you come from"
"slight problem with that"
"What?"
"I come from California."

Does someone know how to change the subject so as to remove "breeding", if reminds me of the obnoxious breeder who put it there

That better?

Hey, Azahar:

yes, Trudeau. His son Justin is really coming into his own now. I heard him on CBC the other day doing the Canada Reads thing (Nationwide radio bookclub for those not familiar with the CBC). He sounds so much like his father.

Thanks for plugging the chief gordon lightfoot thread. (I started it, BTW) Back close to the beginning somebody posted something like "I don't know who chief gordon lightfoot is and I've never heard of the Saskatchewan Rhinoceros, but my answer is a resounding no!" For a while I posted public service announcements explaining what the thread was really about.

Frankly, I prefer the "Breeding" bit... Imagine all the folks who come in here thinking they are going to read all about how terrible it is to interbreed, and they are confronted by us....

Besides.... Do a search of "Interracial Breeding" on Google (keep the quotation marks) and see what comes up. We are the lone site that isn't a White Supremacy site or a porn site. Kinda makes me proud.....

Do you think the intent of the breeder who started the thread was to show what a pleasant bunch we are....

Or is it OK to sound like racist crap as long as we aren't ?

Mudhooks has a really good point. This is an excellent discussion, and if it ain't broke don't fix it. I'll leave the heading as it is, but . . . can we take a vote?

Can anyone vote? I would go for breeding if enfranchised.