h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Are human beings the rationalising animal?

Still following our genes but making up excuses for doing it?

Noggin

hi Noggin,

Something like that. They come up with reasons for doing things and if those things don't work out *then* the come up with the excuses

They? Oops, guess that should be 'we'. Freudian slip - you know, like when you say one thing and mean your mother.

az

Hi Az

I was thinking more that the reasons themselves often don't make sense outside of the context of (often unacknowledged) biologically based imperatives. Other animals just do it - humans have to justify doing it.

Noggin

hi noggin,

Well yeah, but there are no 'rules' in the wild except eat or be eaten. The survival of the fittest. And so of course there is no need for justification there.

We, on the other hand, have created various civilizations and cultures. And we created new rules because somewhere along the line we decided we no longer wanted to live like wild animals. And so reverting to animal behaviour is no longer an option for us if we want to consider ourselves civilized being.

I mean, I'd have to have a REALLY good reason to sink my teeth into someone's neck and break off their limbs and then devour them for my dinner, doncha think?

az

"humans are meant to be civilized. And so behaviour that may have been quite natural a few thousand years ago obviously is no longer acceptable" -- amen.

But with respect, I would say that though animals are not malicious, that's a human thing, they are racist. Look at the terrible things chimps do to baby chimps from a neighbouring group. And so on and on.

simulpost...

twas supposed to be a reaction about planting teeth in someone's neck...

couldn't resist it...

Yeah, chimps are racist - or at least xenophobic. What they don't have is a racial theory that justifies that behaviour on the grounds of the natural superiority of their own tribe.

Noggin

Recumbent,

Also with respect, I shall say that what chimps do to other chimps cannot be considered malicious or racist because they are just trying to survive better by getting rid of the competition for their food sources.

They are not killing off the other chimps because they think they are a sub-chimp species and do not deserve to live and should probably have never been born.

Heck, even cat fathers will kill their own newborn male offspring if given a chance because of the same reason - one day these guys will grow up and be competition.

I'm constantly saving little salamanders around the flat because when my cats see them they are driven by basic instinct to attack and kill them, even though they are quite well fed.

Of course, cats are not civilized - bless them.

az

Chimps are NOT "trying to survive better by getting rid of the competition for their food sources" because they don't make the connection. They kill chimps from other groups because the chimps with that xenophobic behaviour pattern survived, and more importantly reproduced the genes that led to it.

Noggin

Is that a scientifically proven fact or your opinion?

My thing about the chimps was opinion. Really, there are xenophobic genes? Weird.

az

actually, unless either chimpanzees' signing abilities or primatologists telepathic abilities have improved vastly since I last checked, we can't really make any definitive statements about why chimps do anything. We can assume that they scratch their testicles because they itch (or maybe, because they can) But we can't say they catagorically why they kill babies. We don't know why people kill babies. Maybe chimps sometimes see baby chimps as particularly annoying intelligent shades of blue and they don't feel like closing their eyes or looking away. Okay, now I'm just being silly, but I think the point I started to make is still valid.

I haven't laughed aloud at the computer for ages, thanks Anhaga. Would that go for female chimps too? Whose testicles would they be scratching then? "Ere, get your bleedin' 'ands off my gonads, yer silly slag, haven't yer got an arse of yer own to scratch?" Or something like that, but in Chimpese.

Seriously though, I know why people kill babies, well, here in the "civilised" west, where nuclear families with no support system can be driven into states of psychotic rage by endless sleep-deprivation and screaming children. Been there, felt it, nearly did murder one of my kids. Turned out I also had a temperature of 104, but fortunately, I managed to restrain myself from bashing the wee pet's brains out on the floor, and passed him to my cousin who happened to be visiting that evening. The potential victim was child number two, and neither he nor number one ever slept for more than an hour at a time.

Don't worry, he has grown up a fine healthy lad and a stunning musician.

Did you ever come across a book called "The Continuum Concept" by Jean Liedloff, all about bringing up babies in the Amazon rainforest?
For all the very enlightened characters she describes as a result of their constant "hands-on-constant-contact" approach, the Amazonian chaps seem pretty aggressive in their approach to other tribes.

Chai,

You're not alone. I was always too afraid to have kids when I was in my twenties. I felt sure I'd be the sort to suddenly flip out and toss my baby down the stairs or over the balcony in a fit of weirdness. Then, when I got older, wiser and calmer, found out I couldn't have kids anymore. Like - how fair was that!

Oh yeah, forgot. Life isn't fair, is it?


Anhaga,

Great take on our chimpy cousins.

az
(is it this late already? have I been on line this long???)

Errrmmm... Regarding the scratching of testicles:

Since chimps are not the only animal to scratch their bits and if you have sat in a shopping mall long enough, you will have witnessed enough testicle scratching to come up with a few theories.

My theory?... Because they have them....

There is the joke... Why do dogs like their testicles? Because they can.

Actually, some of the classic signs exhibited by shoplifters is yawning, glancing about, and coughing. However, the number one sign is... you guessed it... testicle scratching.

Way to ruin a good joke... yeesh...

Why do dogs LICK their testicles? Because they can.

Utterly irrelevant to the thread, but did you see Whoopi Goldberg tell Graham Norton that she can lick her bits! How unfair can life be?

ohhh, I was just talking about life not being fair over on the God thread - now you have just confirmed this totally for me Chai - thanks!

az

Chaiwallah,

Nothing could be irrelevant to the thread.

Besides, surely the greatest scientistific minds have studied the problem of "not being able to lick your own bits and pieces".....