h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I hate waiting around for Preview so normally whatever's in the original post gets sent any way - followed but numerous corrections.

I do know how to spell and the nuances of grammar but sod them all when I want to get a post off quickly

Spoll chucker worked grate. Need grandma cheque.

Liam.

More referring to the people who just don't bother in the first place.

To those that do it : you know that on the net, presentation is everything? How can you make a serious point, if you come across as the local village idiot?

Because I am the local village idiot, and very rarely have anything important or serious to say...

what's the problem with being a village idiot? Its a simple life and you're always happy.

You make a good point though - terrible spelling and an inability to string a sentence together make a posting look bad. I especially hate this shorthand text message malarkey like not using a capital I, doing c u l8er and rubbish like that. For goodness sake, typing ain't that hard!

Whinge whinge..

Anyway, has the golden age passed? Maybe...or this could be the quiet before the fine and noble storm.

What sort of exciting things are you hoping to see?

Let's try to find a middle ground here shall we?

There's nothing wrong with having a good mix of *all* kinds of discussions here, but I think what I, and the person who started this thread, and a few others in the conversation are getting tired of is the overwhelming volume of threads which seem to be there just for the sake of having a conversation. I unsubscribe from most of those because I was brought up to say nothing if I've got nothing to say. Why does anyone need to know what I had for breakfast or what I can see out of my window? And if you need to know what time it is where I am, use a world time website.

There are plenty of other places on h2g2 where those conversations can take place, and if there aren't, than make one. If you want to have word games, create a word games entry. If want to know what everyone's favourite X is, create a Favourites entry. This is h2g2 - as a Researcher you have the power to do that, and you can use Askh2g2 to advertise it

Lenny,

What am I hoping to see? Hmm. Well, to be honest, what I really like on H2G2 is a fully blown arguement. Or debate. But with good points being made. It is here, but not overly so, from my brief experience.

Perhaps there are so many 'pointless' threads here because everyone is just waiting for their turn to speak, and not listening to other people. Or maybe there are just so many researchers now that these threads need to be there.

I dunno.

Hmm I used to come onto h2 regularly and argue for hours.Now its just a string of e-mails.

I have been reading this thread with a sense of foreboding... I've only really taken part in H2G2 in the past month or so, and I do enjoy it.. but here comes the "but"

I was hoping for it to be a little more stimulating, I'm sure this site was set up to expand knowledge by the "many talking to the many", a new concept of our time and not one we should necessarily fritter away..
there have been some good discussions here, don't get me wrong, and I have learned somethings.. which is all good, but....
there are too many people who contribute to the threads who have no particular interest in what's being said, they just want to have their say, and this so often changes them from discussions into slanging matches, or worse into completely irrelevant topics.. it is so infuriating to subscribe to a thread only to find a day later that you have to wade through all the crap to get at the actual point of the thread...

This really doesn't happen so much on other forum boards, so please as someone has already said... if you've nothing good to say...please shut up!

I hope this is not too off thread.. at least I hope it's in the spirit of the thread...

"There are plenty of other places on h2g2 where those conversations can take place, and if there aren't, than make one. If you want to have word games, create a word games entry. If want to know what everyone's favourite X is, create a Favourites entry. This is h2g2 - as a Researcher you have the power to do that, and you can use Askh2g2 to advertise it"

likewise, if you want to have serious discussions, go and create an entry on the topic you wish to discuss, and start a conversation.


personally i spend a very large chunk of my h2 time on ask h2g2. the main reason isn't because i need to play a word game or find out what everyone's favourite x is, its because i want the stimulation of varied conversation. I also want to get to know researchers. The best way i know how to do this is by talking with people. i have other non-askh2g2 threads where i do this as well, but i find that ask h2g2 gives me access to a wider range of people and ideas.


i don't mind if the serious threads increase in numbers. feel free to start as many as you want.


i'm also curious if people are unhappy with the number of silly threads and are subscribed to ask h2g2 - try unsubscribing and visiting the page manually each day. that way you can just subscribe to the threads that interest you.

I'm not subscribed to 'Ask H2G2' per se, but I am involved in a number of conversations here. When I have checked all the conversations that I'm taking part in scroll through the list for the last few hours to see if anything else interesting has come up. That approach has got me into some interesting conversations and some trivial ones. Give it a go!

I must say I don't subscribe the whole ask h2g2 conversation but subscribe to those conversations which interest me. I take the point that a million conversations about what's in your sandwiches or what's the weather like where you are aren't everyone's cup of tea but but I would say just don't subscribe to those. I like the silly conversations but I appreciate a heated debate too. I also think that silly conversations are a good way for some people to settle in and get to know others.


Looking forward to more heated debates on a variety of topics starting soon....

that's pretty much what i am doing too, Cheerful.

there was a great religion thread a few weeks ago on ask h2g2 - about jesus being mad or not. lots of intelligent comment, people actually talking to each other, a few heated moments, but nothing that degenerated into the slanging i've seen on some threads. it felt like this secret conversation about religion that we were having away from all the rhetoric. really nice.

I must confess that I shy away from conversations with religous overtones. This is partly because I'm pretty much an atheist (although I acknowledge that Jesus probably did exist - as a man, not a mad man), partly because these conversations *can* get heated, and partly because (particularly in the case of Creationists) there's nothing the 'opposition' can say to persuade me away from my point of view. Basically, I don't feel like wasting my time.

i usually avoid the religion threads too 'cos i can't be bothered with the creationists versus the 'science is the only way' lot.

thats what i enjoyed about that particular thread - it wasn't so polarised into the believers and non-believers. a much more free flowing discussion.

<>

So this is the problem with Ask H2G2? That would seem to include all the threads then.

Or - more seriously: Exactly what criterion are we using here to measure the threads?

Serious versus frivalous?
Opinionated versus non-opinionated?
Funny versus serious?
Witty versus dull?
Interesting versus tedious?
Amusing versus non-amusing?
General verus specific?

How about this bit of trivial nonsense:
"This ... is an ex-parrot."
Pointless nonesense? Or does it express some ideas about the human condition in an ironic fashion?

Personally, I like my intellectual stimulation to come in all shapes, sizes, forms, parodies, jokes, and even nonesensical burbles.

Like it or not - Ask H2G2 is the front end of the site. It is the most popular posting place and everyone is welcome. If you want to segregate it - marginalise it - shunt off a section of users because you don't like hitting the unsubscribe button too many times - well, maybe you will succeed with that. But it will damage the inclusiveness of the site.

Why should anyone ask - "What can you see out of your window today"? - How about this: Because anyone can answer, and anyone is welcome to.

Correct spelling is quite clearly the sign of an unimaginative and overly pedestrian mind.

I guess you could argue what with h2g2 being such a big place and all, that's it's hard to stumble accross the debate you'd like to get into at the time you'd like to get into it. And that it would be nice if those debate were all in a convenient place, like 'Ask...'. But even if we did turn 'Ask...' into a frivolity free zone, then the really fascinating debates would still be taking place elsewhere: here, on another site, anywhere but where you are. The grass is always greener, and all that.

Plus then, nobody would be bothering to turn up to 'Ask...' at all, of course.

Have I ended the sentence with a preposition yet? Drat. Must try harder next time to get one of those suckers in.

The Freedom From Faith Foundation has long been a place where you can have outstanding discussions on the subject of religion, mostly because it discourages zealots. We've got a lot of different beliefs represented, and a lot of lively debates, and they generally maintain a respectful tone.

I'm not just speaking for myself as a longtime veteran now, but as a representative of a LOT of researchers who came here for intellectual stimulation and experienced the same:

This site represents a good cross-section of real life attitudes. That means, unfortunately, it also represents its prejudices. One prejudice that is well displayed here is the jealousy and dislike of anyone that appears to be an elite. In school the elite were the wealthy and attractive kids, and we hated them. For those of us who have graduated and moved on, the elite are the managers, with wealth and power, and we hate them.

The internet is a great equalizer. We are faceless, and so equally attractive. We have no way to demonstrate wealth, so we're all equally rich. The only way in which we are not equal is by the intelligence we exhibit. So people who come to this site to share intellectual stimulation are, to some extent, hated.

There are those of who, once, wanted to pursue intellectual projects and conversations, and were very passionate about the Guide. That is the lethal combination. Passion and intelligence are not generally accepted in combination by this community. Here's why...

A newbie arrives, gets inspired by the principles of the Guide, and gets to work. Runs into a few others with similar interests. Gets a couple of articles approved. And then, raises the bar... decides to write better articles, more complete articles, more stimulating articles, for the Guide. Writes those articles. Sees them ruined by shoddy editing... wrong facts inserted, grammatical and spelling errors introduced rather than corrected, paragraphs deleted that could have been rewritten instead, whose ommission renders the entire article meaningless, or gives it a meaning not intended by the author.

And the passion kicks in... the newbie starts asking questions... why can't we do a better job of editing? Why are so many poor entries being accepted, when we could produce a better Guide? The newbie volunteers for the Subs and/or Scouts as a way to help work for a better Guide from within. But the harder the newbie works, the more the Army of the Average resists.

The Army of the Average is happy with a Guide that includes entries with only 25-50% of the material they propose to cover in the titles. In this way, the Army of the Average can get their articles accepted. The Army of the Average is happy to toe the party line and accept the rules of the site, whereas the passionate newbie gets moderated a lot, and gets upset about it a lot. The Army of the Average is vast, and organized. They take brief pauses between exchanging food and drink icons to point out where the Passionate Newbie is making trouble, and they converge.

The most Passionate Newbies hold out for a long time, but the Army of the Average grinds them down. One by one, they are defeated. Maybe they depart forever. For those who stay, the passion is gone.

There was a time when those of us who were really passionate, and had been here for a long time, were still working on the Guide. And there were a lot of good articles on the Front Pade, along with the products of the Army of the Average. Nowadays, I don't even look on the Front Page unless I'm extremely bored, because the odds that I'll find something interesting and stimulating are pretty low... although I've checked as I wrote this, and at first glance there appears to be a few good ones today... clearly fate has conspired to put good articles on the day I would write this post to make me look foolish.

Those of us who were once Passionate Newbies no longer contribute, or contribute on a very reduced scale. We're more experienced researchers now, but we also don't care. We're replaced by new Passionate Newbies, and they write good articles only so long as their passion holds up against the Army of the Average. Maybe they hang in long enough to raise their own standards and write a few great articles. Maybe they don't.

One thing I do know is that I've written some articles that I consider to be great. I'm good for many more. But I won't write them. Because I don't care.

As the quality of the Guide goes, so goes the quality of conversations... back in the day, conversations were more often taking place off of Guide entries and journal entries, and Ask H2G2 wasn't the central discussion place it has become. And many of us who would get into fiery debates don't... we just don't have the fire. For instance, I used to be an almost permanent resident of the Longest Posters list. Nowadays, 100-word posts are more common. This post is the first long post I can remember writing since my one-year hiatus.

On the whole, even with the silliness, I think that I have found a more intelligent approach to almost everything on here than I usually do in RL.

I am a writer. Not a very good one. I am a typer. Not a very good one.
Even the worst of the posters here are writing, or, at the very least, typing.

I know a s**tload of people in RL who can't write or type. Won't even try.

So, within the context of RL, H2 is head and rump ahead of most of the folks I know. Within the context of the net, 'Ask H2G2' seems to have a little less of the anal cliquishness that I have encountered in my furtive peeks elsewhere.

Of course, being almost a facsimile of normal, I do have a peeve, a tiny bone to pick.
Some of these funny bunnies that run around strewing bon mots and beau jestes in the threads should really be hunkering down at their personal spaces and creating some entries. I like to see a thought completed every once in a while.

I've not darkened the towels of PR more than once or twice, but I am filling up the Beeb server in my own way.

As for the topic that we are not talking about, I said all I had to say on the subject six months ago. Not that I'm clairvoyant... It's just that on some topics I am fairly consistent. And I am very consistent on not wanting to beat a dead horse. The tenderizing ability of that particular activity is debatable, though.

Hear hear!

Once I was a frequent poster, spending easily eight hours a day writing, posting, having fun and talking. I started a club. I read the front page every day for good articles and to see good conversations.

Over time the conversations got boring. The articles were sensless. People started fighting...

I have been a vollunteer, I have been a researcher. No more do I do these things. I use the Guide as a way to talk to those few people who have proven great worth in their views to me. Every so often I think about something that I could write to better the guide in the way I originally envisioned it's intent. But I know that it will not make it through peer review, because I just don't work that way. So likely it would be ignored and forgotten.

Ask h2g2 seems useless to me. The one time I posted a serious question here it was ignored. It was not a catchy title or funny or controversial. It was simply about a surgery I was to undergo. I really wanted people views on it. Alas it was completely ignored. Not a single person deemed it worth answering, even just to add three dozen stupid smilies.

Has h2g2 passed it's golden age? It is far too early to tell in my view. Possibly, but I am going to fight it's passing for as long as I can kick.

Possibly you could make this a better place by changing the rules. But that will not happen under the current managment. I do not blame the staffers, or even BBC. The staffers do not have full controll and the BBC was never intended to be what the guide started out as. That is why I don't complain about the rules that silence certain of my ideas and views. I can't change it, so I won't belabor the points. I still feel that a few changes in policy would stimulate conversation and a few changes in the submission process would make better articles.

I have said my piece here, please feel free to rebut and tear it to shreds.