h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Imagine you're dead. Go on Try. Just try to imagine that you are dead.

Have you got that far yet?

Face it.

We don't know.

We haven't got a moderator's clue.

That's called the survival instinct.

If we knew what it was like to be dead .

We wouldn't bother staying alive.



Dave the (thi s state and i can still type) Gaol Keeper

please do tell ben

I agree. Especially if the net change is positive. And, I'm quite positive there is a change of state from this life to the next. Now as to whether we ever return to this particular state or remain in some future aquired state....there lies the real question. It's all better described by physics than by metephysics. Oh, and yes, I'll also have the toast.

I agree. Especially if the net change is positive. And, I'm quite positive there is a change of state from this life to the next. Now as to whether we ever return to this particular state or remain in some future aquired state....there lies the real question. It's all better described by physics than by metephysics. Oh, and yes, I'll also have the toast.

It is possible to define life as negative entropy - ie living things assimilate relatively disordered things -such as diffferent-sized chips- and use them to create order - body parts etc. ( their own of course )
Therefore, if an afterlife exists in a physical form, it is reasonable to assume that it is producing some sort of ordering effect and thus reducing entropy in the universe.
So, this would also imply that disorder must be increasing at an even faster rate somewhere else, which might explain why the sales of Microsoft Windows are so high.

jwf...re: Dylan at 60. After reading some of CS's missives, I don't think I'll trust anyone ever again; not even St Peter when the time comes. [No offence Colonel].
Sure Dylan's written something appropriate..."God knows when but you're doing it again....". Best I can do at this time of day.

JWF - I'd like to be buried in a simple box in the earth, no embalming, nothing shitty like that - but I am damned if anyone is going to dig me up and measure my thigh bone, count my fillings and make rude comments on my diet. So I am stipulating cremation and my ashes to be scattered on the high Cotswolds. But I'd rather be buried.

Malitsa - I do agree completely when you say: "whatever gets you through the night" is the best possible answer for each individual. Trouble is - I get drawn in to the debate...

Xanatic, and Apathetic - D'oh, and I was so looking forward to the tunnel of light! Damn! (s it sophistic or foolish of me to say "Ah, but that is just the mechanism"? But I DO think that most of our material experience IS just the mechanism for our spriitual experiences. Oh dear.

Thats about all I can manage just now.

agcB

Xanatic, the point I was trying to make is that we can't find out what the world is really like, because there's no way we can perceive it other than through our own senses and our own interperetation. So there's no point trying - what we should instead be trying to do is finding out how our world works, and not worrying about whether it correllates with the worlds other people are able to express to us through the woefully inadequate methods of communication at our disposal. Because although we may be able to theoretically accept such things, believing in a totally different world to everyone else you know isn't easy. Or rather, what everyone else you know _says_ they believe in.

It's all hopelessly confusing and hopeless really, so I think I'll go and do something totally pointless but entertaining for a bit. Bye.

Babel: You shouldn't trust anyone... me least of all...

I still have problems with the "whatever gets you through the day" idea. Your take on death is part of your whole picture of life, the universe, and everything, and as a result, it colors your perception of everything you see. If you choose a bad one, it will have repercussions.

Case in point: early Christianity. With its promise of a better world, suicide became rampant. So the church fathers declared suicide a sin. That led to the massive martyrdom prevalent in the first few centuries. A great example comes from the reign of Emperor Justinian. The Romans considered Christianity to be a problem, since, unlike every other religion in the lands they governed, it could not be incorporated into the Roman culture, and its followers (along with the Jews, but at least they were limited to a specific geographic area) refused to pay homage to the Emperor (he was worshipped as a god, but it was the social equivalent then as the respect given to a king or queen in monarchical times... the emperor was, after all, just one god among thousands). Justinian's policy was this: anyone accused of Christianity was to be asked three times, "Are you a Christian?" A "no" answer at any stage was sufficient for innocence, they had only to burn a little something in front of the statue of the emperor and they could go on their way. It would have gone something like this:

"Are you a Christian?"
"Yes."
"Are you sure you're a Christian?"
"Yes."
"Let me ask you this one more time. With your life hanging in the balance on the answer, please tell me, are you a Christian?"
"Yes."
"Very well, you leave me no choice."

And off he went to a horrible death. As forgiveness is a cornerstone of the Christianity, it would be consistent with that religion to lie, light a fire in front of the emperor, and beg forgiveness. But with visions of a glorious afterlife dancing before their eyes, and with special treatment offered to those "persecuted for my sake," Christians gladly turned themselves over for this sort of torturous end.

Some people (early Christians especially) had such a downer on life that they looked forward to so called 'salvation' and an early death. Wasn't life 'nasty, brutish and short' before the Industrial Revolution (and during probably).
Modern man (I use the term in the context of 'mankind') has such a wide variety of diversions (not to mention a healthy disregard for superstition that 'death' means just that, with nothing afterwards) such as TV, video, computers etc.
All of these things take their mind off such weighty topics as you and others speak of.
Personally I hope I've still struggling for breath right up until the last unless of course I fall victim to any mind/memory ailment in which case I hope someone smothers me asap. And no, that isn't an invitation for anyone to pop round and do it now, thank you very much. Don't you know that everything is relative?
Anyway, I thought I got all of this out of my system at least 25 years ago and now it's leapt up to haunt me into middle age.
Ho hum....

And there's a lesson for us all in that, Babel-babe ("..look out your window and I'll be gone"..).
The question is never settled. I thought I had the answer, heck sometimes I think I've got ALL the answers, but this one will keep bubbling back to the surface until we finally 'get it' at the end. Perhaps the nature of its 'uncertainty' is the only recognisable feature of the experience we can even begin to comprehend in this frail human condition we call liff.

*sounds like Ben was doing some serious asterisking Saturday nite*

(..you're the reason I'm a-travelling on but don't think twice it's alright)

Yep. Bubbble and bubble.

*asterix the Gaul otherwise known as Ben you mean? Had a good time by all accounts. Not that I've actually HEARD anything you understand*

shhhh - not so noisy, please!

*goes to wrap a fresh cold towel around her head*

a walking-hangover called Ben

If you can't stand the heat, Ben stay somewhere *cool*

Hey, this is just instant karma!
Cause - too much alcohol: Effect - .

Somewhere cool would be cool though

agcB

Try....Sweden?

Hi agcb. Nice to see you've been enjoying yourself. So, this instant karma, is that anything like instant custard?

Almost as disgusting, it must be said!
agcB

Life doesn´t disobey entropy. If it did I don´t think the theory would ever have been formulated, since something you see every day contradicted it. It states "In a closed system the amount of order will always decrease". Notice the "closed" part of it. That is why your fridge works because it isn´t a closed system, it recieves energy. But try cutting the power and see what happens.

Ahh... the Second Law of Thermodynamics... a favorite misquote of creationists everywhere. Thank you for your attention to the "closed" part.