h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I concur - according to my net research, the garlic answer seems the best one, though there is evidently some uncertainty as to the definite source of the name.

I found the limestone information info above quite interesting, given it refers to my spiritual speleological home. I had assumed the rock was of relatively shallow origin, but I suppose that may be due to the default mental image of prehistoric lagoons and swamps being more striking than an anonymous ocean and deep seabed.
I'm sure that 'Craven', as applied to geology simply comes from the area, and not vice-versa.

Unsurprisingly, b is the right answer - Cravens are Garlicklanders. Given John's status as this thread's retrograde compass of truth, the likelihood of anyone getting it wrong was always pretty small

Sheeesh! And I was going for A, the nasty Norman name-calling. It'd be just like those froggy b...

*ahem*

Spiff for the history lesson. It's not often I find such a clear and concise history that keeps my short attention span engaged.
Poor Harold though, eh. Running from pillar to post, never a moment's peace.


~j~

If not, how can we explain why William the Bastard's (isn't it just a treat writing that name?) viscious, pillaging minions are referred to in the surviving Anglo-Saxon texts from the Yorkshire area as 'Ye Garlicke Ayters'.

Spiff

That would seem to imply the Normans had already picked up a taste for garlic during their 2oo year stay on the Continent. The Frenchies love the stuff, it keeps Transylvanians at bay.
No doubt in those post-1066-days of the Domesday Inventories, the Conquerors inevtiably came upon the naturally-organic-garlic fields of Craven and immediately usurped them.
'Ye Garlike Ayters' would mean 'them beggars what stole our best garlic patch'.

~j~

Garlic has returned to English cooking during my lifetime. I find it fascinating that, although garleac is AngloSaxon and there were fields of it going down to the river at Collingham when I was a student, it was only used in medical folk remedies in the 60s .Dinosaur

Surely not! Next you'll be telling me that English Gentlemen have taken to gorging themselves on gastropods and feasting on fatted frogs. Dear me! Upper lips just aren't what they used to be. Have the appropriate authorities been informed? Is a Parliamentary Enquiry under way? Can the rot be stopped or is it too late.

Personally I blame that damn tunnel (I expect it's being referred to as the *too-nell* over there these days!). Any chance of flooding the thing and going back to the good old days of ferry 'crossings' where you don't get off the boat, you just stock up on booze and fags (and absolutely *no* garlic! Nor onions neither, for that matter.) in the duty free shop and get off back where you started.

Support the Campaign to Bring Back the Booze Cruise (CBBBC)

Spiff - A worried expat

*half expecting to return home to Blighty for Xmas and discover that instead of Turkey 'n' Trimmings he's going to offered une douzaine de Petits Gris followed by Rossbif à l'ail with a hefty portion of Cuisses de Grenouilles as dessert*

When I graduated a few years ago, Delia Smith was getting an honorary degree the same day. According to our VC she is the one who single-handedly brought garlic to english cooking. Gawd bless 'er.

vestigialk

Your VC is mistaken: Elizabeth David did all the hard work, and Delia merely cashed in on her endeavours.

Coming to a dictionary near you soon,

Forensicated - just heard on the telly from some copper. As in 'We forensicated the crime scene'. Far too good not to use.

and the other one was American, some general saying that they were 'interdicting traffic in Afganistan. And when I say interdicting, I mean interdicting'. given the context, I'm assuming he meant 'stop and search'.

Oh, and as I'm disappearing for a few days, just a quick question on the origins of language. Quite often I'll see someone say that such and such a word comes from the Anglo Saxon. But exactly what does this mean? As I understand it, at that time, each district had its own variation, more than a dialect. There is a quote the some soldiers were sent from London via the thames to somewhere but landed in Kent to get supplies, and found they could not make themselves understood. So I'm just wondering if the Anglo Saxon refered to is a purified ideal language and not that actually spoken at the time?

Anglo-Saxon is used to mean Old English, which was a slightly less unified language than modern English.

Mycroft, ta for that.

But was it a language as I would mean now, i.e. with defined syntax and spelling and so forth? Or was it just that which most people spoke? Hmm, that sentence is wrong. Oh well, I'm sure someone will correct me!

I seem to recall that spelling and structure were somewhat fluid, so are we talking about the phonnetic spellings here? or am I off at a tangent again?

I'm not an expert and I haven't established all the facts on this one, but after some (hasty) research it seems to me that Anglo-Saxon is primarily an ethnic distinction whereas the term Old English is used by modern linguists to refer specifically to the language spoken by the Anglo-Saxon peoples. The term "Anglo-Saxon" seems first to have been used by continental writers in the late 8th century to distinguish the Saxons of Britain from those of the European continent.

As you suggest, OE was not a standardised national language but the language of the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms in the dark ages (Essex, Sussex, and Wessex (Saxons), East Anglia, Middle Anglia, Mercia, and Northumbria (Angles), and Kent (Jutes)). The various Anglo-Saxon kingdoms spoke dialects of what is now known as Old English.

The Angles, Saxons and Jutes began forcibly colonising the eastern parts of the British Isles (they in turn were being pushed from their former homelands by the influx from the East) from around 450 AD when the Roman legions pulled out definitively. They brought with them the germanic languages from their homelands.

Straight from EncycBritannica:

"The Old English language, also called ANGLO-SAXON, is the name given to the language spoken and written in England before 1100; it is the ancestor of Middle English and Modern English. Scholars place Old English in the Anglo-Frisian group of West Germanic languages."

"Four dialects of the Old English language are known: Northumbrian in northern England and southeastern Scotland; Mercian in central England; Kentish in southeastern England; and West Saxon in southern and southwestern England. Mercian and Northumbrian are often classed together as the Anglian dialects. Most extant Old English writings are in the West Saxon dialect; the first great period of literary activity occurred during the reign of King Alfred the Great in the 9th century."

Spiff

Spiff,

Cheers for that!

So perhaps this leads credence to entry in Bill Bryson's Mother tongue which says that there is an isolated island off the coast of germany where the language has developed separately from main stream German in such a way that some phrases, structures and words have survived in the same way that they have in English?

(Unfortunately the book has been lent out to a friend at the moment so I can't quote the exact entry).

Probably Frisia (where the black and white cows come from)
I use Anglo Saxon to mean something that's been in English since it started being English. OE (for Old English) tends to get mixed up with Oxford English and the OED - dictionary)

Bill Bryson's thesis would have even more credence if Germany had a coast off which to have an island.

Surely you are mistaken on that?

Spiff

Of course I'm mistaken, but if you'd kept quiet a bit longer someone might have fallen for it.

Like Gnoman, and me to a lesser extent (see cordwaining), Mycroft trails his coat. Derivation for the last phrase anybody?

Coat trailing ... literally from Irish yobbos who wore coats with enormous tails on them. If anyone stood on them, they were in for a fight.