h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Nine times out of ten someone who is being judgemental is saying more about themselves than about anyone else.

My guess is that he knows he has been selfish, and is projecting it onto anyone and everyone else.

*waves to Krispy*

B

Hi B

Teasswill and MorganLaFaie ... you are both describing elements of my situation too, especially in the "says he still loves me but only seems able to express this through lust" bit. My own insecurity about this may be because I feel I'm a completely different person to the one he originally fell in love with. Or perhaps it's because we've been spending a lot of time in recent months not really talking to each other about anything very much.

This time yesterday we were in the middle of an almighty row (we rarely do this and it's been brewing a while), but it had some surprisingly postive outcomes, in that by the end of it we'd (a) cleared the air (b) discovered common ground (c) come up with some workable solutions to real problems that are bothering both of us and (d) managed to laugh together. So although I spent yesterday afternoon wondering, not for the first time, if Relate could be found in the Yellow Pages, by bedtime I was thinking that actually we *can* still work things out and *haven't* lost the ability to communicate (and OM - who's he?).

DH also inadvertently revealed his love in a way which touched my own heart. The argument was about the amount of Stuff we have in the house, and he was proposing chucking out all of our LPs, on the grounds that we never have time to listen to them. When I said yes, but I still have a daydream that one day we might manage to find an evening when we can listen to them together (incidentally a completely unrealistic daydream, in that he'll want the Undertones and I'll be begging for Wham! - there could still be an incompatibility issue here) and if we throw out the LPs we're therefore throwing out my dream, he went momentarily very emotional. He still cares!

Regarding children, B, well, I look at my mother, and I wonder. I daresay the damage would have been far worse if she'd left, but the impact has been considerable as a result of her staying on for 20 years. My parents do not argue and never rowed, but this did not (and does not) mean there has not been conflict. All of us (I have 3 siblings) have been dragged into this to varying degrees, forced to make choices and adopt behaviour patterns designed to maintain neutrality. It's soured and tainted my own view of marriage and relationships, and made me determined not to inflict on my own children the grinding, esteem-withering misery that I experienced because my mother stayed, and at times was extremely unhappy with her lot, rather than considered that she might have made a mistake.

Of course there is more than one way to deal with this and if staying and doing nothing is the least preferred option, leaving beats it only by a short head. So I think that (at the moment at least) we are working at it. It's just that at times (not right now, of course) this seems hopeless; and it also takes time and energy (both in short supply, in our house as in so many others). And DH's co-operation ... he has to care too, or it's never going to happen. I do also think that some embers need to be there, if we are going to be able to, er (losing the metaphor), re-ignite the flames of passion. Clearly I'm lucky, we still have embers; but I've seriously doubted it for several months. They must just have been well-hidden under all the other things that life's chosen to throw at us recently.

So big hugs to everybody else out there who wants to do what's best for the people they love as well as what's best for themselves ... long-term, these could well be the same thing ... and maybe, if there's still a warm, comfortable glow, then somewhere, there's some embers ...

Mol
(wondering how long the positive feeling will last)
(and hoping it will be a long time - if I'm going to be in a Hollywood fairy tale, I want it to be one with a happy ending and a sequel featuring all the same characters)

What Teasswill said!

B

to you both! Hopefully one day I'll get the hang of postings which are short and to the point, rather than long and indulgent.

I wonder how Bb's weekend has been.

Mol

Ach, long and indulgent is good. I am not exactly adverse to them myself!

>> I wonder how Bb's weekend has been.

Me too, though am more concerned about Mrs Bb and the floozette right now. (Said with affection, having been a floozette myself).

B

Well said Mol. I really wish I had a time booth sometimes and could just go back.....
I just had a row with my other half and of course he gets to go for a walk to blow steam and I get to sit here steaming and look after the kids, the dog, and, and, and.....
And he started the whole thing; something I said hurt him and so we discussed it and then I was upset but he did not want to discuss that; I make mountains out of molehills, etc. Oh we are so different and I should have known from the outset.
Shall I bore you all with the story? (Hopefully no one thinks I'm horrible after because I do like my nickname)
We were dating and so on and I was going to break up with him when I found out I was pregnant. He tuned in to the fact I had missed several periods and was the one to comment; so I asked him what he wanted to do if I was (oh, he had no idea I was thinking of calling things off by the way). He said he wanted me to have an abortion, and us go on as we were. I said I would not do that, but nor would I expect anything; money, time, anything from him, but we would never see each other again. He said it was all mute until we found out. So then I found out, and I was. He said he loved me, wanted to marry me, had just been reacting without thinking etc. I believed him, and thought maybe I had wanted to leave because I was hormonal and if I had loved him enough to live with and give my body too I loved him enough to marry etc.,.....
I now realize I was wrong and I am miserable. We have nothing in common; except that we are wonderful parents together. There is not even an ember left. And I have made the mistake of seeing an old beau and there are embers, at least for me, and he will not say how he feels because I am married and etc., and I have put my life into such a mess I don't want to make more of a mess but I so much want to be happy and fulfilled because I feel so drained with him that it does come out even with the children so how can it be best? Whew! What a run on sentence! I want to cry and scream all at the same time! And I want to know if my old beau still cares about me. I think I am cursed!

Though I’m single and probably shouldn’t be giving advice here, I have an idea about something that might just be worth trying for those of you in relationships that have kinda fallen into a state of disconnect, tedium and disillusion.

Seems to me that everybody changes over time, but it’s hard to give up the ideas we have long held about who our partners really are, and who *we* really are, too. We fall into routines without recognizing that we each have the power to make the changes that’ll make our lives develop in the ways we’d like them to, because we’re stuck in habits that might have outlived their usefulness.

Perhaps it would help to individually make a list of all the things you’d love to do if you were suddenly single and free of all the normal things that eat up the moments of your life. Think about career choices, where you’d travel, where you’d live, hobbies and interests you’d pursue. Think about what kinds of personality traits you’d like to develop and which ones you’d like to overcome. Think about the qualities you’d be looking for in your next partner. Put some serious effort into the exercise, as you would if you knew that your partner would no longer be a part of your life in another month.

I think it would be really eye-opening to share those lists and talk about them, and then together make decisions about which things you’re willing to adjust in your current situation and which dreams you can work towards fulfilling with the rest of your lives, even if you can’t implement all of them right now. It’s a way towards setting new priorities, goals and methods to support each other and compromise successfully, kinda like people do when they’re beginning to build new partnerships. It might be just as exciting as starting fresh with someone else, without the insecurity that accompanies fledgling relationships.

I don't have much to add, but it is terrifying reading this thread in my situation. I'm newly engaged so this is a bit frightening to read.

for those that need one

k

Hmm. Admitting you're newly-engaged in this thread may well mean you end up being bombarded with advice. I'll start.

Firstly, be aware that a number of people with similar, self-doubting, often unhappy, experiences have congregated here and that's bound to skew the perspective somewhat. But even within that, people have been able to relate positive, relationship-building experience - it's not all doom and gloom.

I remember feeling similarly terrified at the time DH and I were planning our wedding. We were happy and we were certain - but isn't everybody at the beginning, and then so often it all falls apart ... what if we too were fooling ourselves? DH refused to contemplate this: "It's not going to happen to us," he said staunchly. And also rather surprisingly, given that he'd spent most of the previous 6 years gloomily waiting for me to find somebody younger, fitter and more attractive; perhaps he'd finally realised that actually I preferred him. Still do, too - there are positive as well as negative reasons why I'm working at this relationship, and hoping that if I ignore my feelings for OM the love there will quietly wither and die (or at least change into something I can handle).

It seems to me that one of the key issues is that even for a relationship that starts off well to continue to work properly, it requires regular routine maintenance and an occasional complete overhaul. Just like cars, homes, careers and everything else that's important in life. And it can be hard, even impossible, to manage this at times, even when we're aware of its importance.

Nobody can see into the future, because we wouldn't believe what we saw if we could ("Apparently, darling, on our tenth wedding anniversary we'll be typing messages to each other into little phones which don't plug into anything, all about how you're going to get to college in the new term!" "?????"). So nobody knows what's going to happen in the relationships in this thread, either.

It is scary. You've chosen whose hand you want to hold as you make the leap into the unknown. I think that most people in this thread would tell you to go for it - just go for it with your eyes open, that's all. Because if you can see the pitfalls, you're more likely to be able to throw a bridge over them.



Mol

And Mother of God, that's a really interesting and good idea. DH and I are having a weekend away *on our own* very soon and maybe we'll try it. Thanks!

Mol

Jab stated that he had yikesed post 458.

The mods have told me that I can edit it and repost it, and it is unnervingly appropriate in the place where this conversation has got to, so here goes:

[removed]

What has Bilbobilbo ever said to make you think his marriage is not worth reparing?

If his marriage isn't in fact repairable, he and Mrs Bb deserve to work that out once the fling is in the past, and base their decisions on their marriage, not on his affair. A good friend of mine said to the man she was eventually blissfully married to for 30 years "don't marry be because of the baby, ask me again when you want get married because of me".

I am going to say to Bilbobilbo, don't let the marriage end because of the fling. Wait for a while, try to repair it, and ONLY end it if it cannot be repaired.

[removed]

I still think Bb can do something which is fabulously worth doing.

Ben

Things better at home now.Have only seen young lady when in company at work. Things seemed to have cooled off spontaneously without any explaining to do. Try to keep my distance without being obvious. Thats if anyone is still interested. Thanks all. Bilbobilbo.

Well, I'm still interested, I have a sisterly concern for your wife and your not-girl-friend. Watch the telepathy though. Women are the world's best and the world's worst mind-readers, so g/f may not be getting the message.

Keep up the good work. Bb. I am impressed and - hey - also proud of you!

B

Hi Bb,

I'm a newbie to this conversation and have just trailed through all the backlog - one of the best "will he, won't he" stories I've heard for a long time! As somone in a long term relationship (only 8 years and not married), and for what it's worth, I think you have done the right thing in ending it, so long as you can finish it off cleanly and limit the damage. Beware though, Mrs. Bb may well know after so long together. I suggest you prepare what you'll tell Mrs. Bb in case it becomes necessary, but don't tell her unless it does. Take care and remember the experience for the future. Oh, and I wouldn't tell Mrs. Bb that everyone on H2G2 knows; I suspect that would go down badly!

Bambi

I am also still interested, Bb, so thank you for, erm, keeping us posted.

Mol

I have to say that things at home are better than they have been for quite a long time. Possibly because of the guilt thing, I have been paying more attention to Mrs bb. Nothing "over the top", that would possibly arouse suspicions as to why, but in talking and listening ways. Funny thing is, we are now talking, laughing hugging and even making love more than we have for a long time. It seems that it has had to come to a very nearly full blown affair by me to put us back on track, and I am now much happier with our relationship. I now appreciate Mrs bb in ways that I had possibly forgotten over the years, and the reverse is also true, in that Mrs bb is responding more to me than has been the case for a long time. It makes me wonder what had happened to us that brought all this on. Bilbobilbo.

That old cliche, 'familiarity breeds contempt'?

Oops, premature 'post'!

Bb - glad to hear what good has come out of this potentially disastrous episode.