h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

And I thereby win myself a fiver. Thanks Jab.

B

Back to the subject under discussion.

Bilbobilbo, if your marriage is in the dire state that Jab so eloquenltly assumes, then don't let it end because of an affair.

Do what Kaz has suggested to rediscover who Mrs Bilbobilbo is after these 27 years, and while you are at it to discover who you have become.

Then, after you have worked as hard at it as you worked to get her when you wooed her in the first place, and *only* then, if it is as arid as Jab suggests, consider whether you want to end it.

I have known so many women whose marriages were ended because their husbands did not have the nerve to get off the bus until there was a taxi waiting, and there is no pain like it.

My guess, though, is that your marriage is not in the state that Jab implies. That it is a little tired, a little comfortable, a little mundane, and though it may not be possible to put the sparkle back, it is almost certainly possible to discover new ways of loving this person your wife has become, ways that replace the sparkle with a deeper and more profound love.

One thing I find very interesting, and I am generalising from the people I know in real life here, is that women tend to look back on failed marriages with regret and pain, but not with bitterness. For really venomous anger and spite it takes a man.

Ben
*who is still enough of a romantic to raise a toast to Mr and Mrs Bilbobilbo* - Good Luck!

Yes, there does seem to be a difference between men & women in less than satisfactory relationships. I wonder if men would rather have someone look after them & would only leave when, as you say, there is someone to transfer to. Whereas maybe women on the whole are more able to be independent either within a marriage, or by choosing to step away from it.

Blimey, there's a question. Well several, actually.

While I know several women who bounce from relationship to relationship because they cannot hack being single, I do also know a large number of succesful single women who are reasonably happy and fairly content. They might want a relationship, but equally they might want a new bathroom, or to be able to take two months off work to go to Australia.

However, I know and know of very few happily single heterosexual men.

One statistic that I trot out every now and again is that married women die younger than single women, and married men live longer than single men. Which leads one to the inevitable conclusion that marriage, even now, is better for men than for women.

I don't know about women being able to be independent in marriage, though. There is that whole co-dependency thing.

B

Wow. This thread keeps going; too much back log to catch up on so forgive me if I repeat something already said;

I think marriage is much better for men. I agree that men will stay in a marriage because it's there where I think women, well, I desperately long for intimacy and sparkle. I keep kicking myself that I did not leave my husband at a point when things were "justifiably bad" because now there is just all those horrible memories, try as I do to forget, and a growing apart. It is really sad. We are excellent parents together and there are some ok moments, but really, there is no closeness or sparkle. Is it normal for that to leave? I have tried to get it back; we went off together and really it very much pointed out all our differences. We travel very differntly, or maybe not differently but just selfishly. He kept wanting to go on 4 hour bus tours and I did not travel so far to sit on a bus but when I wanted to explore local culture he did not and so on. But it's more than that. It's the having a lovely time as a family, then sitting with each other for some coffee and him not hardly looking at me when he talks, not gazing into my eyes ever, neither of us holding hands or touching in any way. We don't share a bed either except occasionally and there is no spark; it is more a "need" thing. And, of course, I am in love with someone else or at least think I am and it fills me with longing and regret. We meet up every so (un)often and I just feel all that spark. If I did not have children I would leave my husband in a New York minute! But I just don't know what I'm doing to myself....I should not even see him as a friend because every time I do I feel more and more torn...but he's like a loadstone and I can't say no.....
Any magic spells out there to fix me up? : (

No magic, alas, but I do feel for you so much.



B

I do sometimes wonder what motivates a man to marry - I understand the woman's perspective of course . . but men are -generally- a lot more ego-based and so seem a lot more inclined to "wander". of course anywone who isn't getting what they need - in life or with their partner will be inclined to deviate but i really wonder sometimes what it is in a man that makes them think - "I do" about a woman . . . .

I don't know...I think motives to vary greatly with each individual but overall I know what motivates a man, it is us woman who are sold the fairy stories from day 1 and they are, unfortunately, making a big hollywood comeback! It's really ridiculous; woman can bear children on their own, and we are the ones who are sought after; not the other way around. A man marries because he get's a wife, a lover etc. What makes woman loose their marbles and marry? It's all societal brain washing about falling in love.....I suppose that sounds horrible; I mean, I'm sure there are alot of truly in love people out there and I am insanely jealous. Alas it is midsummer and Shakespeare's quotes come to mind on the madness that is "love".....

Dunno about other men, but on our faith wedding, we vowed to be together to the end of time and beyond.

Thats what we wanted from marriage, which was why the real one was done in front of the Goddess, not a paperwork pusher from a government we hate.

MorganLaFaie, what a brave revelation - so much of what you say is similar to my situation, but I have no other love interest.
My man claims to love me 'more than ever' but doesn't seem able to show it other than by lust. I'm sure we need to talk more & try to address each other's needs, but I'm not sure if I want to.

OH Teaswill Thankyou! THANKYOU!
I have gone throught so much and that is just it; at this point "I'm not sure I want to" too little too late, too much under the bridge, just feeling I got married too young and he is the wrong man....
My mother says I am selfish and wrong and the family unit should come before all etc., .....
What do we do?

There is no right or wrong course. One cannot be selfish without feeling pain unless one is also uncaring. I think one can only try to weigh up the pros & cons of the three main options - no change/stay but try to change things/leave.

I do have to say here that children in these situations are incredibly vulnerable. Ok, I know you know that already. But bear with me. There is (as I think I have mentioned) a man I would walk across burning coals for but whose children are too vulnerable for it to be acceptable to anyone, including me, for them to be even more damaged than they have already been. But the point is that if he were the kind of man to put my supposed happiness first and ignore the needs of his children, then he would not in fact be the kind of man I could trust or be happy with.

Life's a bitch, eh?

B

I'm not sure if I feel humbled or guilty at my quick exit from my marrige many years ago. I tumbled into marrige out of a very painful and harrowing relationship and it was a beutifully healing time. But after it while it was clear that he and I had completely different life-goals and ideas. One day I suggested we see someone to discuss our problems . . he paged through his diary and said he might be abel to fit in in near the end of August (it was May). I moved out in November and never looked back (I was married for 3 years in total).

Its so hard to say what makes a lasting partnership, but my best guess has gotto be a common value system so there's always common ground - no matter what. What I really miss though - is having someone arround to whom I dont have explain the background of every situation . . . The "getting to know you" process has become so banal that I just dont do it anymore. Its not all peaches and cream "out there" either.

Just a thought . . . . use it, dont . . . whatever *shrug*

By the sounds of it you are as good if not better out than in.

>> What I really miss though - is having someone arround to whom I dont have explain the background of every situation . . .

Now that *is* true, and one of the wonderful things about my ex is that we have managed to get back to being on very good terms. (Which reminds me, I promised him some paperwork, and have very little better to do this evening). It is useful to him to have someone who has known his family for over twenty years () to be able to vent to or run ideas past, and there is a luxury about that amount of shared past.

On the other hand there is also something very luxurious about slowly discovering more and more about the 'right' someone, and a luxury about having decades of unshared history to discover.

But finding that 'right' someone...

Ah, me.

B

My husband was accused at work for being selfish because we are not going to have children. He knows nothing about us or our situation and felt he could judge us as selfish, utter bastard.

What always confuses me about that argument is that 'being selfish' implies someone else suffers. Who - exactly - does your husband's colleague think suffers because you don't have children?

Yep.

That's right.

No-one.

Except possibly your husband's colleague, who sounds like he is suffering envy.

Take it as a compliment to wise choices, Kaz. That is most definitely his s**t not yours.



B

Yeah I gathered that he just jealous because he perceives that we are living a selfish life with no regard for others.

He wasn't selfish though, he had 2 children and then got divorced and left, course it wasn't selfish for him to leave his kids alone. BUt its selfish for us to not have kids and therefore not leave them like he did, duh. So hes thick as well as judgemental.

After your helping me up from the depths on the phone the other day Kaz, and knowing that you've done so for so many others, I wouldn't for a minute think of you as selfish, quite the reverse.

Thanks Krispy!

This guy didn't know us anyway, its just annoying, being judged like that.