h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

After having seen a number of god-bashing postings here and there on h2, and inspired partly by the "What's wrong with Americans?" and "Recanting" threads, I would like to ask : "Why don't you buy into christianity?"

Do you reckon the whole idea is ridiculous and stupid, obsolete in the modern world, harmful or misguided, a deliberate deception maybe, a haven for the facile and weak minded? Or are the followers of the cross which you have personally encountered just too annoying for you? Why?

If you were you once a believer, why did you throw in the ecclesiastical towel?

We all get a good laugh at the quick and clever one-liner put downs of christianity and its adherents, but lets go beyond these. What do you really think?

What I really think is that Christianity is a very good religion. The world would be a better place if everybody stuck to what Jesus actually said in the bible. I just happen to not believe in a God or an Afterlife, so I can't really call myself a Christian.

If only the churches would follow christian teachings...

Indeed! The teachings of Christ - don't steal, kill people etc. - can only really be seen as a good thing. It's only when religion gets taken over by human beings that the problems start...

Thou shalt not kill, unless to persecute the heretic
Love thy neighbour, unless they happen to be homosexual/Muslim/the wrong sort of Christian...

...of course, this applies to most religions, not just Christianity.

When I was a child, from about 5 years old to about 16, Christianity was the only religion I had any direct experience of. There were kids in school who were Sikhs, Hindu or Muslim, but I didn't know anything about those religions. Christianity was the only thing that was taught. I believed in it because I was a child and I didn't know anything else.

I *still* don't know much about any other religion, but I know enough to know that I couldn't happily belong to any of them. I also no longer believe in God. I believe in Jesus as a historical figure, but that's as far as it goes. It would be great if people lived according to what the Bible *says* Jesus taught, but hardly anybody does.

Why the change? Some of it is education, in the sense of reading a lot of different things. I know that the Bible has been messed about with so much (e.g., the Council of Nicaea) that I can no longer accept it as 'Gospel truth'. When the Bible goes, you're not left with much. Some of it is education in the sense that I don't see where God fits in any more. God the creator went a long time ago. There isn't much (if anything) in the universe that can only be explained by divine intervention. An omnipotent, omniscient God? I have problems with that idea. A benevolent God? Don't make me laugh. A God who watches us and notes whether we're behaving ourselves? Sounds like Santa Claus. And I don't believe in the traditional Heaven and Hell version of the afterlife, if there is one. I've got a very interesting book called the history of Hell. According to that book, some Christians believe there is no Hell, because Christ redeemed us and made it unnecessary (or something).

I wouldn't say that Christians turned me against Christianity, although the attitudes of some have put me off investigating the beliefs of different 'sects'. I knew a man who believed that nobody would get to Heaven unless they were Christian, regardless of how exemplary their life had been. This doesn't fit in with the God I was taught about, and it's certainly not a God I would want to believe in. I'm also put off by the homophobic and 'anti-sex' attitudes of some Christians. They seem to think that homosexuality, masturbation and any kind of extra-marital sex is wrong. I prefer the Japanese attitude: How can anything that gives pleasure to two people without hurting anybody be wrong?

I believe in nothingness. when you die you die no light no sound no thought like an eternal rest or untill the next person gets pregnant and thus you are born again with no recorlection of the past and a bright or dim futre ahead of you. it like i always say birth, life, death and repeat.

uhhh

Steps on a few yolks.

I've always found it difficult to believe in things that are not provable, or blindingly self-evident. Since God is neither of these things, I have never been a believer in Christianity.

I have not had good experinces with the Church though, and I don't tend to trust Christians very much. I think this is down to the fact that the few Christians who do one of two things tend to give the rest of the Church a bad name.
Firstly, the people who have the attitude that you are wrong for not believing the same as them, and resort to pressurising or ridiculing others to get their message across.
Secondly, are people who look down on others for not believing the same thing.

I have experienced both of these things myself, and have in turn become intolerant of Christians because of it. In the last year or so, I have realised this is wrong and have been working hard not to be so judgmental, and to treat Christians as I would a member of any other religion.

Its true that its not the teachiings that are the probllem..but they way they have been used..and distorted.
When i actually had a good look at the bible i was very surprsed by what i found!

A lot of people say they dont elieve in an afterlife..heave, hell etc..that (according to the bible)is actually right! when we die.we die,we are dead..thats it!
we dont have individual souls, but every living being shares the same animating energy.
Ecclesiastes 9:5.10 says "for the living are concious that they will die,but as for the dead,they are conscious of nothing at all,neither do they anymore have wages ,because the rememberance of them has been forgotton.
All that your hands find to o ,do with your ery power,for there is no work nor evising nor knowledge ,nor wisdom in the grave ,the place to which you are going"

We actually learn through reading etc,that we just die when we die,but some people, the good ones will be ressurrected after Armageddon and have the job of re building the earth and be happy on it forever ,under the guidance of a very small few in heaven .


Dont know what i believe personally..not even sure i believe in God (think theres something though).But i think whether you believe or not,the Bible is still a valuable source of morals and wisdom etc.
I dont think the world,nor society would be in quite the state it is today (or anywhere near it!)if we all lived by the basic principles.

And yes CHEERFUL DRAGON..it is supposed to be that christ redeemed us (if we want to be redeemed)so theres no need for a hell.Thats why some religions call his death the ransom sacrifice.Adam was pefect and hes the one who sold us out..so by that only perfect blood (christ wasnt conceived as such suposedly so was perfect)could buy us all back as such.So..its supposed to have been Jesus's purpose to die here so that could happen.

My major objection to Christianity is the intolerance which usually comes with it. The Bible does, I believe, say some fairly horrible things about what should be done with people who don't believe in God, and there are a lot of people claiming to be Christians who, erraneously or not, spend a lot of time denouncing homosexuals, unmarried couples and followers of other religions, rather than spreading the love and message of Jesus Christ.

Not that I'm particularly impressed by that either. I just cannot accept the entire concept of God being the sole cause of our creation, and Him simply creating us to keep Himself company. Especially the way He treated Adam and Eve after they ate from the forbidden tree. One mistake and they're out of paradise for good? It's all very well to say Jesus redeemed us, and wasn't it such a sacrifice on God's part, but it was God who made the rules to start with and I've not heard anything which says He couldn't change them if He wanted to. Thus I find scant evidence of God's love.

Christ's teaching of morality are all very well and good, but can also be found elsewhere.

Finally, I never liked the massively organised church. It seems like you have to go through the priests to get to God, and that gives the priests too much power. Plus putting too much faith in what a book says (one which has been tampered with) rather than what you discover for yourself? Sorry, can't do that either.

So that's my problem with Christianity.

I gave up Christianity because I'd never particularly believed or practised it.

I also find it intolerably 'against' nearly everything I believe is right, and it spawns such dreadful hypocrites, many of which seem to find their way onto h2g2.

It seems much more natural to me to look to the earth, and the things around me for a spiritual lift that to something I can't see, touch or understand.

For someone who doesn't have any belief in a god, deciding to start believing without an extraordinary reason to do so is a rather difficult thing. Even if one thought that people who do believe feel (on average) happier than those who don't, that might provide a motive for belief, but not a method to get there.

Even for an adult would-be believer without an affiliation to any particular religion, it seems to make sense to consider all the possibilities before choosing which one to go for, but that could end up with some very difficult questions - Is Buddhism better than Christianity? Is Methodism better than Catholicism?
I imagine that for some potential beleivers, seeing people claiming their religion is the only true one could be extremely offputting, and some of the more vocal forms of Christianity seem to follow that pattern.

Personally, I lost whatever belief I might once have had in the omniscience of adults at a rather young age, and started to treat anything I was told about that had to be taken largely on faith (like religion) with a degree of skepticism, so faith never really took hold

nothing wrong with any religion oas a whole but there are people in it.I have had people claming to be christian having a go at me beuse I was involved in euthaners. I am had people do the same who wouldent. I m not a christqn and never will be but I will defend christanity to people who are really having a go without any substance the same as I will attack it when they have ago at me and how I live..does that make sence to any one?

Aye. basically the same as most have said, i.e the majority of Christians I have met have been loathsome and a bit stupid. I never personally bought their idea of God-as-human-style tho, mainly, since that seems a bit too obvious. There's enough around to wonder at; worship that instead, who needs a God? 'specially a self-proclaimed jealous one... revealing...?

Maybe it is an omen, but as far as I can see there is not one post in this thread from all those researchers who claim on their space to be active christians and very fond of discussing religion and creationism.

Maybe they're working on some really cracking good ones...

With some of the hostility, I'm not surprised at the lack of Christian supporters. Like any other set of people, some of the more vocal (and hence more noticable) ones can be a pain, but most are quiet and decent. (The American Tourist effect?)

I suspect that the decline in Christianity in the UK parallels to some extent the change in the approach to communal values, and the number of alternative things to do on a Sunday.

For someone living in a village (or close urban community) where there isn't much choice of religions, most people attend church (and would be missed if they didn't), in a situation where there isn't TV to watch, places to travel to, (or access to the means of travel, attending a church is in many ways the easiest option.

For someone living in a situation where they hardly know most of their neighbours, and most of their neighbours don't go to church, no-one is likely to ask them "Where were *you* on Sunday?", or even care.

People who are strongly involved in a church via family will get reinforcement, but people who aren't won't, and that's the situation for many people these days.
Some people seem to be natural believers, and may well be drawn to religion even without encouragement, some people are natural skeptics, and hence highly resistant, but I suspect that the majority are potential believers, but would require regular reinforcement to be actively religious.

I suspect that decades ago, many people who called themselves Christians weren't exactly fervent, and probably went to church every Sunday as much for the sense of community (and for the sake of appearances) as for any deep religious feeling, but once the pressure drops, so do attendances.
I think that even in some of the most active churches in the UK these days, without strong parental pressure the congregations would be somewhat smaller.

As far as I know there was only ever one Christian, in much the same way as there is only one Tony Benn.
Actions speak of one's intentions, not an adherance to doctrine.
Both Britain and America tout themselves as Christian countries, yet regularly participate in wholesale slaughter.
This isn't a paradox. It just means they aren't Christian.
They are merely behaving how they want under the guide of a badge.
It's like the constitution. It fails to be what it was supposed to be as soon as there are addenda to the original clause.

THOU SHALT NOT KILL (unless the other guy has something you want).