h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

After Marjin's comment, I feel I need to post. Mind you, I'm not quite sure I fit into his category as my space doesn't actually have the words "I'm a Christian" on it. It wouldn't be difficult to guess, though. Also I'm not fond of discussing creationism, because although it claims to be scientific it really isn't.

I carry the symbol of my faith in my name-- but I don't go out looking for debates. I dislike it when they turn into mud-slinging fests, and I learned the hard way you can't *force* people to believe anything. I'm up for some questions, but I won't debate.

I think few non-beleivers would have problems with anyone who behaved in a 'Christian' manner, but didn't go out of their way to convert anyone.
I think one thing that does annoy people is when someone credits all/most of their 'good' behaviour to their beliefs, with the implicit assumption that people who don't share their beliefs are somehow inferior.

As a neighbour, a real-life Ned Flanders would possibly be better than the average, though I'm not sure about living in a whole streetful.

Amy- is your dislike of debate due to aforementioned mudslinging?
It is true that the majority of Christians I've met have been less than shining examples, and that is what I don't like: forced conversion, being told I'm hell-bound, and that what I believe has no value or truth whatsoever. This is just insulting behaviour with no real point. (Not that other religions aren't as guilty but I haven't met half as many representatives of those.) Still, that doesn't happen all the time and it is good to discuss parallel beliefs with others.
(doesn't make that much difference anyway...)

I think it's harmful to everyone when people have no distinction between normal Christians and fundamentalist Christians. To some they are one and the same.

It's like thinking all Muslims are terrorists to say that all Christians take the bible literally, think homosexuality is evil and will judge you, etc. The vast majority are moderate, peaceful and their religion is generally a positive thing.

It's a kind of extremism in itself to be so stridently anti-religious. Live and let live.

Ste

Yes, my dislike for pure debate stems from former mudslinging... between myself and people on here (this was long before the Beeb took over), between myself and some of my friends in high school, and even between myself and closer friends. It's not something I'd like to relive. There is a time and a place for debate, but a certain person can do it and I certainly can't keep up with it and I tend to take things far too personally to be able to remain calm when someone attacks a belief that I hold dear-- or me personally. I am getting better though.

It would probably surprise non believers that some Christians are bothered by people who are waaaay too forward in witnessing their beliefs (and going to university in the Bible Belt of the US, I know far too many people like that). I can't speak for other believers, but I have been personally offended by some of the ways that others try to witness to others, particuarly those who use fear and intimidation. To me that seems wrong, and actually rather un-Christian. The same goes for having a very staunch view-- such as that on homosexuality or *fill in something the Southern Baptist Convention has boycotted in recent years*. I could be perfectly wrong, but though I do see things wrong with those topics (such as homosexuality), I don't see the people who do it as "agents of the devil" or any similar phrase. Sinners, yes, but then aren't we all? What really annoys me are the hypocrites who are so self-righteous until something is found out about their past and suddenly they're exposed for being the human they are.

That brings up another point... I've always held that we really shouldn't judge a religion by the participants. There will always be hypocrites, someone who doesn't quite live up to the status quo-- and at least in Christianity, that's the point. We're not perfect, and though we're supposed to be striving to become so, we know we will never reach perfection on our own. Some people are less imperfect than others (read differently: some people come across as bigger hypocrites than others), but that doesn't mean they're not trying. If they're not truly trying, they're simply posers in my humble opinion and shouldn't be considered part of the religion in the first place.

Sorry, that was something of a rant... this is what happens when I'm in "paper writing mode" and I decide to take a break on h2g2.

makes sence to me
although then agane what is also aprent to me as an "outsider" on religiosn things is that it is the poepl who atract or put you off the religion, for exampt the pope has done for the vccathlic church over recant years with his out bersts against docters who comit euthanser, dvorece lawers and judges who preside over decvorce cases (ther is more but ther is no point uin listing them) as foot ball holagans did for the british torist. as you said amy, people with unbeding balefs put us hethans off I dmit I know alot about religion but that is becuse i have had it ramed down my thrght by some strange old women who decided that my sister who was handycapped had done somthing aghainst god so he made her like that. (I would love to know how coz she was born handycapped but I think she was going scenile)

See-- that's what I'm talking about... people are being all strange about their beliefs (God doesn't generally punish people while they're on earth, they make their own problems). There's nothing I can think of to prove that woman's point; in fact, only things that refute it.

well she was happy...and I dont think I upset her to much..although I have a habet of being mean when people any me

Still not a good reason for her to tell you that you did something wrong when she can't possibly know.

It wouldn't surprise me, Amy- I really believe that most Christians are fine and at least try to live by their rules. I seem to attract the bad 'uns, tho...
I hate being told that someone else's God wouldn't want me because I do something they don't agree with, though I have pointed out that whilst I afford their God and belief system equal credit, since it's important to them, I don't personally believe it. Why would I want their God, and why would he want me? however, then they come back with 'God needs us all to be Christians/ snake handlers etc.' after vehemently assuring me that I would not be welcome.
Hmm... puzzling. However, as already professed, most wouldn't be so rude as to bring such a personal thing into someone else's life. I have plenty of time for them.

Once again, that's why I say to judge the religion by the religion and not by the people who are part of it. I've studied other religions, and have found nothing that appeals to me more (and/or makes more sense to me) than the statues set out in the the Christian Bible. And I've found no "evidence" (yet) that convinces me that anything recorded there is false.

I just hate it when people try to speak for God....

I gess you arnt cathlick then
although you have to remeber that people befoire they lern about the religion see the people in it. so of corse they have to jude it by them first if they intimedadted and amide to feel inferor of corse they arnt going to want to stay in that church to lern more beuce they will feel out of place

Please don't get the wrong idea from my earlier posting. I am not 'anti-Christian', per se. I'm just put off by *some* of the people I have encountered who profess to be Christian, but hold attitudes that I cannot reconcile with the teachings of Christ as stated in the Bible. I also don't like people who try to convert me, citing the Bible as proof that they are right when, if I had time, I could probably find something in there that contradicts them. I also don't like having religion forced down my throat, which is one reason why I avoid the media 'God-slots' on Sunday (although BBC1's 'Heaven and Earth' programme can be quite interesting, and isn't too preachy.)

I regard the teachings of Christ as stated in the Gospels as good guidelines for how you should live your life, especially when put together with the Ten Commandments. I try to live that way as best I can. ('Thou shalt not steal' goes out of the window whenever I take a pen from the office stationery cupboard, but I believe whole-heartedly in 'Thou shalt not commit adultery'.) But I do *not* regard myself as Christian. I don't go to church and I don't believe in God. As for the other religions, there's something about each one that puts me off before I even start delving too deeply into what they believe. Often it's dietary - Hindus won't eat beef, Jews won't eat pork, Buddhists are vegetarian (usually). That may sound trivial, but I feel that you shouldn't embrace a religion unless you can accept *everything* it holds to be true. What I know about Hinduism shows it to be a polytheistic faith, which I have problems with. I guess the only religions other than Christianity that I *might* want to investigate further are Islam and Judaism. But then, the God they believe in is the same as the Christian God, they just don't regard Christ as the Son of God. Ho hum.

The thing I find hard about most religions is you have to take the lot or none , you have to believe everthing that they tell you els you are called a none believer.you can ask a question on somthing you dont know,but you can't question the answer

Many of the 'real' Christians I have come across in my time have been amoung the nicest people I have ever met - that is, those that I think of as living a christian life according to the teachings of Jesus.

Some of these lovely people also held some views I strongly disagree with, for example the belief that homosexuality is wrong - but the ones I had the most respect for treated gay people the same as straight people in spite of their personal belief. A real Love thy neighbour attitue that can't be criticised. One chap in particular strongly believed that sex before marriage was a sin. I think he believed that I would probably go to hell for my sins (although he never came right out and said that) but did not treat me like I needed saving, or like I was beneath contempt. I had many long discussions with him about why he felt that way, and why I didn't, and they were very interesting. I got the impression that he got a tremendous inner strength and confidence from his belief, and although he didn't try to convert me he was a walking advert for his faith.

It is a shame that I have also met many narrow-minded individuals that have taken teachings about love and turned them into reasons to hate. This is true for many religions, as the message is always tainted through interpretation by actual humans.


k
PS Personally I am agnostic, and this is a consciously chosen position rather than sitting on the fence. Atheism is as dependent on belief in the absence of a god as theism is on the presence of one.

I used to be an agnostic, and felt much the same way about it - atheism requires as much faith as Christianity, Islam, Judaism or anything else you care to mention. Wasn't that something DNA used to say?

Anyway, last year when I was living in Halls and met most of my friends, many of whom are Christians, I had some very interesting theological discussions with them. They gave up trying to convert me after a while - at least overtly, I think they're still hoping that I'll see the error of my ways, but I'm quite happy where I am, and feeling much more content with myself and the world and my place in it than I have done for a long time.

However, since I've changed to a neopagan religion, I probably get a distorted perspective of some of the things Christians do - because the things that make the most noise in the neopagan community are those extremists who spend all day denouncing Witches, claiming with straight faces that Wicca is a religion 'requiring' sacrifices to Satan (which could be further from the truth, but not by very much - especially since Witches don't believe in Satan) and that it is their sacred duty to save the souls of these evil people by any means necessary. I really don't take too kindly to that.

I hasten to add, however, that these people are obviously in the minority, and that I've never met any of them - at least, if I have, they didn't know my religion.

The only thing I really have against Christianity is the need that some Christians feel to convert everyone no matter the other person's preference. It's all very well my friends believing I'm going to go to Hell, and I suppose it's nice that they care enough to hope that I don't, but since I don't believe I'm going to Hell (not even slightly) it doesn't bother me even a little bit.

So yes, really, the only thing I don't like about Christians in general is when they try and convert me, acting like they're doing me a favour. Do I try and convert them to Wicca? Most certainly not! It's actually considered quite rude to even try.

I quite agree Kelli, I too am agnostic but have some very good friends who have a deep Christian faith. They have never made me feel bad about the way I live my life despite the fact that we have very different views on some fairly major subjects. They are among the most tolerant people I know and I am proud to have them as friends.

Something which does concern me though is single faith schools (of any religion) as they promote segregation and lead to a lack of understanding about other faiths and beliefs. In Tyne and Wear recently there has been quite a problem with one Christian school in particular which has not been teaching it's pupils about evolution, stating that it is only a theory, and instead teaching the children only about Creationism. It is this kind of "closed minded" attitude amongst SOME Christians that leads problems.

The school I went to could be described as 'single faith'. It called itself a 'Church of England' school, and morning assemblies were held using prayers and hyms that the Church of England used. This did *not* lead to segregation. The school held an entrance exam and once you passed, you were in, regardless of religion. One boy in my class was Jewish, so he didn't attend assemblies. This also applied to Indian children. Basically, the school felt that 'Christian' was 'Christian', regardless of sect. We *did* have Religious Education for two years, but on no occasion were we taught, 'This is correct. This is what you must believe.' In fact, the teacher (a C of E Reverend, no less) said in the first lesson, 'The Bible contains parables, myths and laws, and not a great deal of fact.' If that's what a C of E Reverend thinks, who am I to argue?

That's great!! It's nice to know that not all faith schools are (for want of a better phrase) stuck in their ways. What kind of things did you cover in religious education?

I generally think that whatever makes people feel comfortable in themselves and happy with their lives is good, regardless of what religion they belong to, provided it isn't forced onto other people.