h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The aces work as a team.....

Of that ive no doubt a vast majority of them do, like a pack of wolves

After having read this page i thought perhaps a might remind them of what it says, and ask their comments on the topic.....

"It is vital that aces are unfailingly polite to researchers. Any critical or negative postings from aces will scare off new researchers, and this will only harm the project."

Perhaps this rule is in a grey area and maybe overlooked sometimes? Id be interested to know if all the aces feel that they have honestly abided by this rule

"To enable us to let you see everything, we ask that you do not talk about what you have see with anyone who is not bound by this code. We will be explicit about those things you should keep to yourself and will let you know if and when you may talk about those things on site. We will communicate this information via the mailing list. Anyone who leeks confidential information will obviously be asked to leave the scheme."

Ahem, might i suggest certain grievances with researchers have naturally build to up an animosity because we are more aware of what is going on in h2g2 than some of you are aware, and furthermore, those where there is an a grievance perhaps it is because your fellow aces have not abided by such rules, naturally id be very interested to hear your comments on this

"Everyone who participates in h2g2 is bound by the house rules of the site, and it is particularly important that the aces are seen to do so because they represent the public face of h2g2."

As the public face of h2g2 'SOME'of the aces paint a very interesting picture indeed!

"It is very easy for messages to be misinterpreted, (We are ALL aware of that fact only to well), so it is important that everyone participating in the scheme takes great care not to offend or annoy other members. Anyone being deliberately offensive will be warned and, if necessary, will be removed from the scheme."

I have absolutely no argument whatsoever with the fact messages are often misinterpreted, however, its a great pity you do not enforce this rule with 'some' of your aces as this often leads to many misunderstandings and researchers feeling that this site is unjust and unfriendly.

TO THE POWERS THAT BE MAY I JUST ASK YOU GIVE THIS NEW THREAD A FAIR GO AND DO NOT YIKES IT AS I AM INTERESTED IN HEARING OTHER COMMENTS BOTH FROM YOU, YOUR ACES AND OTHER RESEARCHERS POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE. AND FURTHERMORE I WOULD HOPE YOU ENFORCE ALL OF YOUR RULES WITH THE ACES OR REMOVE THEM AS YOU ARE ONLY TO QUICK TO DO TO US, THIS I FEEL WOULD LEAD TO A HAPPIER ATMOSPHERE ON THIS SITE WITH ALL CONCERNED

Hi there, ~~Insomniac.Vampire~~ - I'm Whoami? , an <./>Ace></.>. That doesn't mean I blindly defend the BBC, the Italics or indeed other Aces. I'm here as me.

To deal with your last point first, your posting will not be yikesed, since it is not inviolation of the <./>HouseRules</.>. Only material that breaks these rules is removed, and we don't have a rule against constructive criticism.

You refer to the Aces as being "like a pack of wolves". Is there a particular incident of this nature that you'd like to link to? I've never seen it happen yet...

Regarding politeness, nobody is perfect. I've lost my cool with other Researchers in the past. However, my interpretation of the rule is never to step up any aggression. I also won't respond in kind. I'll fight my corner, but not sink to the level of an offensive poster. Even when really angry, I do try to remain polite, in the sense of not being rude to people. Personal insults are not the way of the Aces. I like to think that I am typical of the volunteer groups overall. Again, if you have links demonstrating that my faith is misguided, then I'd love to see them, and no doubt so would the Italics.

I'm not sure quite what you said about the confidentiality clause. I'll leave that for now.

'I have absolutely no argument whatsoever with the fact messages are often misinterpreted, however, its a great pity you do not enforce this rule with 'some' of your aces as this often leads to many misunderstandings and researchers feeling that this site is unjust and unfriendly.'

With regard to this, I've always found h2g2 a friendly place, except in isolated circumstances where the offenders have subsequently been removed from groups and even from the site.

I hope this offers an insight into my opinion as well as a further basis for debate.

Whoami?
h2g2 Ace, Guru, Scout, <./>SubEditor</.>

As an afterthought, and before anyone else says it, you should perhaps consider avoiding ALL CAPS - it looks a lot like shouting and isn't easy to read...

Whoami?

Hello all....

Pack of wolves.....
I have never realy seen that happen but to be fair im not able
to be in two places at once and we are researchers as well so the
other aspect of this there may be 2 aces 3 aces 1 ace on at any time dureing the day we can come onsite as often and as long as we want and we never know what thread another ace is in at one time
looseing one`s cool......
It is bound to happen like whoami
has said no one is perfect in any
way shape or form every one is bound to have a difference of opinion about a subject but it is important to keep objective and on the subect matter and be sensable about the anser you give
if you find its geting silly leave for a bit when you feel your contribution will be of a more objective naiture then put it down this avoids silly confrontations
confidential infomation....
We are not allowed to disscuss matters that have been sent to us
via a E-Mail if a researcher is haveing problems and dosen`t want us to mention it on site this is a matter to be brought up in our forum likewise any infomation that is posted on there should not be mentioned on site if you find such a post you should report it to a ace thats not involved in the conversation to be dealt with we have to stick to house rules and forum rules as well
Missinterpreted post...
I have had posts that on first glance seem to me to mean to mean something els but if im in any doubt i read them again to make sure of the content thats why makeing posts as clear as possible is a must and never more
so than if you are talkig to some one for the first time this makes
any such insident`s less likely to happen
My
-Intern-

Hello all....

Pack of wolves.....
I have never realy seen that happen but to be fair im not able
to be in two places at once and we are researchers as well so the
other aspect of this there may be 2 aces 3 aces 1 ace on at any time dureing the day we can come onsite as often and as long as we want and we never know what thread another ace is in at one time
looseing one`s cool......
It is bound to happen like whoami
has said no one is perfect in any
way shape or form every one is bound to have a difference of opinion about a subject but it is important to keep objective and on the subect matter and be sensable about the anser you give
if you find its geting silly leave for a bit when you feel your contribution will be of a more objective naiture then put it down this avoids silly confrontations
confidential infomation....
We are not allowed to disscuss matters that have been sent to us
via a E-Mail if a researcher is haveing problems and dosen`t want us to mention it on site this is a matter to be brought up in our forum likewise any infomation that is posted on there should not be mentioned on site if you find such a post you should report it to a ace thats not involved in the conversation to be dealt with we have to stick to house rules and forum rules as well
Missinterpreted post...
I have had posts that on first glance seem to me to mean to mean something els but if im in any doubt i read them again to make sure of the content thats why makeing posts as clear as possible is a must and never more
so than if you are talkig to some one for the first time this makes
any such insident`s less likely to happen
My
-Intern-

Hello there Insomniac Vampire,

We didn't get to this thread before Whoami and Intern's responses, which have pretty much covered everything we were going to.

However, I'd just like to stress that we're very proud of our volunteer schemes and feel that the ACEs do a fantastic job of welcoming new people to h2g2 and definitely make the site a better place to be. We always appreciate constructive feedback but I don't think I have ever seen any ACEs behaving like 'a pack of wolves' - however, I have seen ACEs react with calmness and kindness when faced with abruptness or rudeness.

Kind regards,

h2g2 Support

Difficult to reply to very vague allegations/accusations in the first place... Insomniac.Vampire, unless some examples are provided to illustrate the points made in your posting [you don't even have to give names], your comments risk to be seen as comments that someone with a grudge would make i'm afraid...

As for the "pack of wolves" analogy, if it's for the reason given by Intern then your comments would be rather unfair as after all the more ACEs at the same time on the site the better as newbies don't always register one at the time... and of course, ACEs also answer call for help from new[ish] researchers as well etc...

If it is for another reason, then you need to give some examples showing us why you feel the ACEs are like a "pack of wolves"...

The confidentiality issue: unfounded allegation for the moment as you haven't explained why you think that some ACEs might have leaked some confidential informations... Is it just a feeling you have or is it based on something specific?!... for us to make our mind up, we need to know what has been said in the first place... again an example is better than just a vague comment especially with such a serious issue...

To "Everyone who participates in h2g2 is bound by the house rules of the site, and it is particularly important that the aces are seen to do so because they represent the public face of h2g2." you say:

>As the public face of h2g2 'SOME'of the aces paint a very interesting picture indeed!<

was that a constructive criticism?!... All i see is a dig at some members of a volunteers group i'm afraid...

The "Everyone who participates in h2g2 is bound by the house rules of the site..." part does say it all really: if someone breaks the rules, they pay the price...

"Anyone being deliberately offensive will be warned and, if necessary, will be removed from the scheme."
The emphasis should be on "deliberately"... Even ACEs are human beings [] so they're bound to make mistakes and sometimes lose their cool... Trolling and flaming researchers on purpose would be unacceptable from an ACE... but, then again, it is unacceptable from _anyone_ anyway...

>FURTHERMORE I WOULD HOPE YOU ENFORCE ALL OF YOUR RULES WITH THE ACES OR REMOVE THEM AS YOU ARE ONLY TO QUICK TO DO TO US,<

that was loud... and a bit risky as well... yep, some researchers do get removed/banned at times... but the Editors "quick to do that"?!... Can you prove these allegations or is it just what _you_ think is happening/has happened?!...

In the risk of repeating myself i will paraphrase a proeminent political figure and say: "examples.. examples.. examples..."
Without them you don't have a case...

Of course, anyone throwing the proverbial first stone should check that they are not living in a glass house first... A bit rich accusing some members of a volunteers group of breaking the rules [though we haven't been provided with any examples to support your claim] when the accuser has in a recent convo been kind of promoting breaking the rules herself... Does "rules are made to be broken" rings a bell?! [see http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/plain/FFM35246?thread=319972&skip=0&show=20#p4185912 ] your own words methinks..

The plot thickens indeed...

loup.dargent

This post has been removed.

"so called chatroom" - h2g2 isn't a chatroom. Have a go with BBCi Connector .

Also find out how to <./>Contribute</.> to this guide.

spelugx, <./>subeditor</.>

The post has been hidden during moderation so much for a sensable
debate on this hey

Just for clarity's sake, it appears that the case of the AWOL accounts is what insomniac.vampire is referring to in much of his/her comments.

And while I personally have no problems with the way I've seen various ACEs and staff deal with that situation, I can also understand how someone might jump to conclusions from the experience about ACEs exhibiting 'pack behavior' or about the h2g2 editors being quick to toss someone out.

A lot of it comes down to perspective and context -- the perspective of someone who's been here awhile and knows many of the ACEs and Editors will view things from a different perspective than someone rather newer. Plus, someone newer to the site is often less aware of the degree to which conversations in other threads and offsite provide a context for what happens here.


Mikey

Hello....

Im not alloud to go into detail on the Awol situation becouse it is been discussed off site and there for i may give out infomation that is been discussed
at this time

What i can say is that we do ask people to stop breaking the rules
if we find there newish to the site and do make sure we explain why its against the rules
Awol was asked a number of times not to do what he was doing
The end result was a suspention from the site

So we do make sure that there are
just corse in any case and dont just throw a suspention/ban around lightly

We do try to be polite all the time and to every one

Hello All.

I think this as stemed from last night from a thread to which insomniac intern and my self was in when insomniac was being disrespectful towards intern and other aces.
I explained then that we have rules to follow just like anyone else that uses h2g2.
I also explained that i myself have never seen any ace behave in a manour that breaks the rules,and if they did would be treated just like any other researcher and have there post removed.
I also told insomniac that if she has a genuine complaint to go through the correct channels and not do it by going in to threads to abuse aces.
I think Us aces do our best to do everything by the book and make h2g2 a nice place to be. BUT when researchers such as AWOL and INSOMNIAC are forever posting in threads to slate h2g2 and the aces,Makes it dificault and we can not turn away and do nothing about it.

The Thread i am refereing to yesterday was someone i welcomed a few days ago that insomniac had came in to. and if any any one looked at the thread had many posts removed for her behavour in what she ws saying.

Thats all i have to say on the subject.

MA

[ Midnight... I was typing some of this while you posted your reply... not looking forward to edit/update what i've already typed with my slow connection, i left it as it is...]


>Just for clarity's sake, it appears that the case of the AWOL accounts is what insomniac.vampire is referring to in much of his/her comments.<

Perhaps it is, but that still doesn't tell us how on earth some ACEs have broken the rules according to her...

And nope, i do not believe that ACEs have leaked any confidential informations in the AWOL case and there is an entry provided by the Editors about it anyway... I have read some postings from ACEs about AWOL on h2g2, nothing in them that wasn't public knowledge _already_...

Also, AWOL never having made too much efforts to hide who he was/is when opening new accounts, there was/is no breach of confidentiality there either when ACES were/are mentioning the fact that the new accounts were/are from a banned researcher...

I have the feeling that what Insomniac Vampire is blaming the ACEs [on top of other things]is the fact that many of AWOL's postings [made through his new accounts] have been yikesed lately and she might find that very unfair [even so opening new accounts while being banned is breaking the Rules anyway]...

[NB: i'm not making any judgement on AWOL's actions _before_ being banned]

Unfortunately, for the moment, we can _only_ guess why and how some ACEs could be seen as breaking the rules as no examples have been provided...

This is a pet-hate of mine that: when people make comments/accusations/allegations/etc about a group/community/etc without backing up what they say with checkable examples i'm afraid... so until some are provided so that we can look into the claims and agree [or not] that some ACEs _might_ have crossed the line, i will still keep to the view i expressed earlier...

And my feelings about the [still unfounded] claims are based on postings made by Insomniac Vampire herself on h2g2... Grudge against some members of the ACEs group [due to the accuser's postings having beeing yikesed and, more importantly, failed (which would mean that the reasons for yikesing them must have been valid in the first place) perhaps?!] is, IMHO, what is transpiring at the moment somehow...

One example, among many others, backing what i've just said: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/plain/FFM126865?thread=284527&skip=140&show=20#p4186897

Insomniac Vampire is not _so_ new that she doesn't know the rules [and as pointed earlier, she does think that they are made to be broken anyway...]... We even made a point to explain to her about why/how some postings can be seen as abusive not that long ago...

Here is my attempt to explain this issue at the time...

> Regarding words being only starred out in some postings while other postings are failed and removed, i hope that the following will help understanding why [_if_ i'm right obviously ]...

If i post something with for example "what the f**k" in it [i edited the word myself by the way, but hopefully people will understand what word i'm referring to.. ], chances are that the word will be starred out pretty fast if a researcher yikeses the post on the ground that it contains an offensive word...

If instead of posting "what the f**k" i post "you're a f**k" to another researcher, there will be two options: 1) someone yikeses my post on the ground that i used an offensive word and the word gets starred out [i call that getting off lightly] or 2) someone yikeses the post on the ground that i'm being abusive to another researcher and my post gets failed and removed/hidden [ooops]... of course, that will depend of the tone used etc as well...

I've noticed before that some people on h2g2 [including established h2g2ers] have the false impression that they can get away with insulting other researchers if they starr out the offensive words themselves before posting the abusive message... Doesn't always work i'm afraid... "you're a f**k" when posted as an insult is _still_ an insult...
Changing the letters' order in the word won't make any difference either...

The same with the smileys... if i post "you're a " in an abusive way to another researcher i take the risk of seing my posting been modded as well...

It all depends of the complain made at the time of the yikesing really...

Anyway, that could explain why some postings have only the offensive words being starred out while other postings [with perhaps only one swear word in them] are being failed and hidden/removed...<

And then... more of Insomniac Vampire's postings get modded...

At the end of the day/night we can't reply properly to Insomniac Vampire until she comes up with checkable examples...

Until then post #1 has to be seen as full of unfounded allegations which are just vague enough to make people think that a volunteers group can't be trusted... which of course raises the issue of slander as well by the way..

*holds breath until examples backing up claims are being provided...*

loup.dargent

Greetings All,

i wasnt expecting so much responce so quickly, bear with me and i will try to answer all of your questions as soon as i can

Whoami?
=======

hi, i asked that it not be yikesed as it very difficult to prove a point when everything i post which includes a valid point is yikesed! ok ill hold my hand up and say perhaps i dont always chose my words well but in my defence i do believe i have been 'goaded' in certain threads (not just by researchers but by 'jumped up' aces aswell) so when posts are removed all that is left is something that looks very 1 sided, with 'people' telling me not to abuse others, i will speak for myself and say what i have to say, and despite some of the other comments that have been made in this thread, it does seem as though aces turn a blind eye to some and not others (as i reply to each post i will give examples).

yes Whoami?, i did refer to the aces as being 'like a pack of wolves'..and the researcher/ace whose name escapes me further down the thread suggested i was talking about a particular thread involving a user called Awol..ok lets use the ban/dont ban Awol thread as an example..in that thread many aces contributed to the thread..after a discussion in the aces forum, nobody else other than me had posted in there, (sarcastic and humorous though my post may have been) they wanted more posts as it had had already been decided in the aces forum that he would go anyway, so as i put in the thread it was a travesty (actually i put more than that but i cant remember now)

i dont expect an ace to be polite 100% of the time, nobodies perfect, (you can find enough examples on here of me making the odd bleep here and there), but what i do expect is an ace to be fair and abide by the rules they tell me to live by, or not preach them to me, fair comment wouldnt you agree?

the isolated circumstances you mention, with regard to h2g2 being a friendly site, i think you'll find where the trouble lies, (and i do not consider myself in anyway blameless when i make this point), is with the users/aces being from LD, they majority of 'old school' h2g2 are from what ive seem mostly 'ok'

speaking of the confidentially clause, if my posts are not yikesed in the process i intend to give examples in the oncoming posts

right i believe ive covered your points, thanks for your time Whoami?

Whoami?
=======

i wasnt shouting, just making a point, ill try to remember not to use the caps in future whilst on h2g2..does h2g2 not like people to use the caps? i am asking in case it seems using the caps might be interpreted as i am shouting and therefore h2g2 does not wish anyone to be 'shouting' online as they say its a 'friendly site'..i speak to some people online whose eyesight isnt great, and many people type in large case, not picking just enquiring

i think everything as certainly been covered


MA

OK. I'm not 100% sure about your criticism of LD. I was worried about LDers arriving en masse at the start, but I now find them to be a pretty congenial bunch, on the whole.

So, glad you agree that it's isolated circumstances. Your original posting did make it sound a lot like it was a habit or routine for all ACEs, which you now agree it isn't.

So, are there any specific examples you'd like to draw to our attention? That's the only thing you haven't done so far...

Whoami?

Blind eye..

I dont turn a blind eye but if there rather new to the site you do have to take the view that there still learning the roaps and hope that asking them not to do it should be enough
In the case its not and the rules are broken then yikesing the post
should be done