h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi i am 17 and i have read the bible, The WHOLE bible, all of it, every page, every sentence, every word.

The old testament is opressive, and the new is biased.

genesis has been disproved, and moses was a dictator with profound similarities to Adolf Hitler.
I find it ironic that Jewish people worship a man who is similar to a man who tried to wipe them all out.

The old talks of great evil in god, and the new only focuses on the kind side of god.

The biggest problem with the bible is interpretation. I don't hate it for what it is, i hate the people who opress and do so because the bible tells them to. i hate the bible for what it has created.

Basics are as follows.

Literally.

the bible tells people to kill in god's name. it describes god killing people because they don't agree with them. it describes the levites as the master race. it also says that god is forgiving.

In short the old testament is opressive, illegal by uk laws, not to mention prejudice and racist. It must go.

The new testament is not so bad, but still. Any christian who claims to love jesus when they are prejudice, racist, or opressive (mormans, catholics etc) is no christian. Jesus was around to fight these things. for example.

no one would touch a man with leporacy, but jesus did. and still there is the whole history of the ill treatment of people by white people.

Jesus died fighting the opression of the romans and clerics.

And yet factions within christianity choose to opress and kill, just like the romans and clerics.

Beliefs that contradict facts are EXTREEMLY dangerous, not to mention incorrect.

Any part of the bible that says it is okay to kill certain people, or it is alright to opress another race, or other people, must be ignored and frankly, in my opinion should be taught as the evidence that uninspired humans wrote the books of the bible. And these people were dictatorial idiots trying to control people through fear.

only a few parts of the bible are good, and fair. The rest should be left so that people can see how a few misinterpreted phrases can lead to torture (homosexuals in the 1950's), suffering and horrific cold blooded murder. (the stoning of women and capital punishment everywhere) Even christians commit capital punishment.

The bible is a book of beliefs. Not a book of facts as many people believe it to be. The beliefs are unfounded and dangerous to basic human rights.

The bible and other such opressive documents represents the old world.

well it is time for it to be yanked out of the future and condemmed to history, before it causes any more human suffering at the hands of fanatics and steady believers.

Take all the offence you want. But do not judge this until you have read the WHOLE of the bible.

Many regards

Matt

Well, it turns out I have read the whole Bible. I don't really take offense to it, but believe what you like. I think that if you're going to bash the Bible, you ought to use good spelling and grammar though. Makes you seem a little more credible in your bashing, you know what I mean?

Right, that was perhaps a cheap shot, Flowers' not Matt's.

I too have read the whole thing, took me a year and a half, adn I know of many christians in my church who would agree that we should loose the OT and stick with the new.

On the new testement itself I have issues, mainly with Paul who I feel might sometimes have been a bit of a pompus twat. I mean that in the nicest of ways of course, but I find it hard to accept what he says and I really don't like the way the conservative christians take everything he said to be 100% solid gold.

As a christian I try/struggle to live like Jesus reported in the gospels, though naturally fail and slip up continuously.



But I wouldn't chuk the whole thing out of existance, it contains important stuff throughout, Jesus fullfills prophacy of the old testiment (some of which the Jews choose to ignore) so that is needed to see where he stands. The NT gives pretty good accurate history of the time of Christ and great teaching that we should really get a hold of today - LOVE YOUR ENEMY (stick that in your pipe and smoke it Bush)



Oh and Matt, I accept evolution, it tells us so much. I believe Genesis was there to tell the people around at the time who God was and what he was about, it's not meant to be some scientific expose on how it happened, despite some christians maintinaing that it does!

Nick Bailey
http://www.nickbailey.co.uk

just try and offend me, I dare ya!!

Oh, I will, I will. Yes, it was cheap, but really, I HATE bad grammer. It just makes me mad, when people are trying to make an intelligent argument, but they can't take the time to capatilize stuff. Sorry, pet peeve.


Now, if you really believe the Bible, you believe the whole thing. It just doesn't make sense to believe half of it (or less than half, in this case). Obviously, most of the OT cannot be taken literally, with the whole sacrificing animals and stuff like that, but there are plenty of ideas there that are very important, you just have to look at them differently than you would the NT.

On Paul, are you kidding?! How was he pompous? He was probably one of the LEAST arrogant people from that time, and on to today. If you hadn't noticed, he was constantly saying that all praise to him should not be to him, but to God. Now, if that's arrogance, then I must be crazy (though I might be anyways...). I wouldn't say that everything he said was perfect, as no human is perfect, but he certainly knew what he was talking about most of the time.

Obviously, all Christians struggle with trying to act like Jesus. That's the point! It's not supposed to be easy!

Of course you shouldn't chuck it out! Even as fiction, it's considered to be one of the greatest pieces of literature ever written! Now, I believe it to be true, but it still is a very good source for good values. And I definitly missed the Bush thing, you lost me there.

As to evolution, I can't accept it, because there is NO evidence. At all. Some people claim that certain bones prove that there were "transitional animals" or whatever, but most of those fossils have been proven to be something that you could find today. Now microevolution I accept, because it has been proven with the whole adaptation stuff, especially with bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics, but that's a completely different issue. Now the Big Bang Theory would work, as long as it includes a certain 'intelligent design' there, because I have a whole lot of trouble believing that the Universe just randomly exploded. But I can believe that God created the Universe by making it explode, that's perfect plausible.

Offensive?

Stephanie Hance
[email protected]

I'm going to have to say "ouch" for god. I happen to think the bible is a pretty good book, if you're into massive descriptions of humanity's inhumanity. The problem is, it has been taken as something more than that. In the bible it is said that we should worship no other gods but the one true god, who is said to be everywhere and everything. Unfortunately, some people have begun worshipping the bible, without realising that god is not contained entirely within it. Likewise it is said that we should not make any graven images, and yet there are those who continue to stare transfixed by the crusifix, or carve replicas of the ten commandments without first reading what they're carving. Jesus said that to swear an oath was blasphemy, and that one should only say one will do a thing, and to say any more was the beginning of evil. Even so, in the justice system they have you place your hand on the bible, and swear an oath to tell the truth. I'm no expert, but that seems like irony to me.
So the problem isn't the bible. It's only a book, after all. The problem is interpretation.

The problem is neither the Old Testament nor the New. The problem is people taking an all-for stance on the thing. There are so many contradictions and pathologically evil things in the book(s) that surely no sane man could believe in every passage. I guess what it all comes down to is, "If Jesus were alive today, the last thing he'd be is a Christian."

That makes no sense at all. Jesus is the basis of all Christianity. Hence the name Christian, ya know, Jesus CHRIST? But there are people who take sections of the Bible completely out of context, and out of the time that it was written. You can't do that, it doensn't work that way.

i cant see a problem with the bible. fair dos i havent read every word but ive read a pretty big chunk of it. it is all about interprtation. the book of hebrews starts of by explaining to people they need to be careful they dont start worship an object rather than God, unfortunately this is what has happened in many cases.
as for evolution, it has not been proven and perhaps never will be. it is still only a theory though it is accepted by most people and taught in schools etc. however it is still the theory of evolution, and therefore cant be completly accepted.

Okay to start this off I'm just going to let you know I have not read the whole Bible, but I have read quite a bit of it so I do believe I have some basic knowledge. Well I guess I don't agree with anyone that has replied to this post. I believe the whole Bible, every word of it is true: 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." I believe that if evolution is true than God worked it out that way. Also for you who made the Bush comment, I'm a firm believer that God calls us to do different things. I'm not saying that God called Bush to start the Iraq war, but God may have called him to the Presidential office; therefore, God knew what would happen. Once again you must remember that I am not a scholar and some of the things I said could be wrong, the second two of my opinions are just that, opinions.
Chauncey

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Many Christians believe that as well, Chauncey - I believe that evolution is the means used by God in making the Universe and us...

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I have to disagree about Bush, I am afraid. I think he's bad all through, and that God may have known he'd end up in power, doesn't necessarily approve!

in reply to the first post of this convo :

you should not take genesis so literally

Aside from my Muslim view point, I have read the whole of the bible, several different versions too at that, an the only things I have against it from a non religious view point is:

a) What gives with all the pornography in it?

b) The science bits, such as the age of the earth and day and night being made before the sun, huh?

But even as a Muslim I still respect it as a religious book, even if as a Muslim I believe that it has been changed and altered over the years, and all the bad things with Christianity, such as worship of Jesus and the trinity is becasue of Paul.

Adib

why is worship of Jesus bad?

he is Gods son and he died to take all our sins away, so that believeing him we can be saved and have a relationship with our father.

Er thats the point, How can 1+1+1=1

Or in other words to use a websites discription of thetrinitybeing three distinct personalities to give an example, if God is a person, the Holy ghost is a person and Jesus is a person (i.e. they all have different characteristics and personality) then how can they all be one.

If you have triplits and one commits murder, can you sentance one of the other ones instead if you don't know which one did it. No, becasue he is a different person.

Islam see's the worship of Jesus as drawing attention and worship away from the one true God and views the trinity as a border line case of worshipping many gods.

Muslims believe that Jesus was Christ or the messiah as he should be called, and that he was born by a virgin women, and that he cured the sick, blind and leper with God's permission. We also say that he was one of the greatest Prophets of the world and that spiritually like every one else he was the son of God, but litterally he is not, nor did he die for our sins, as Islam beieves that both Adam and Eve sinned together and repented and was forgiven. Islam believes that a person is only punishable for the sins he or she commits and noone elses. An so there is no concept of original sin in Islam. Jesus was not hanged on the cross, but rather God took him up to heaven and made it seem to the people that he had been crucified, a very esy thing for God to do you see.

Muslims also believe that we can have a relationship with God through prayer directly to him and not through any intermeditaries, such as Jesus, and in the case of repentance through a vicar. Muslims pray for forgivness to God, and do not tell anyone there sins as a persons sins is between God and the individual noone else, in Islam.

Adib Qasim

you only discuss youre sins with a vicar if you are catholic.
as a CofE you ask God for forgiveness an it will be granted because Jesus was our passover lamb.
the idea of the Jews sacrifices is to put your sin onto something else and to sacrifice this. this is usually a lamb. if this lamb has been sacrificied then Gods wrath can passover. Jesus was the ultimate and final sacrifice. he took all the sins of the world onto himself.
the trinity is the idea that God has 3 forms but all three forms/personalities are all one person. we worship Jesus and God interchangable as they are part of the same being. the holy spirit was given to us to help guide us in our lives.

we can pray directly to God and have a relationship with him. pray is a way of having a conversation with him. Jesus dies for us so if we pray to God in Jesus' name everything we ask for will be given.

ive never really looked at it as worship though. we praise God for everything he has done for us and ask for things and have a relationship with him.
there is no structured way that every christian prays. it is individual as we develop a relationship with our father.

Ooops sorry I forgot to clarify in the case of Catholics in my post.

Thats the whole point being made, is that you can't have three distinct personalities that are one.
Plus in the 1952 version of the RSV all the things that Christians view as being proof of Jesus being God are not in it, but removed as an interpolation.

For example John 3:16 'For God so loved the, that Hr gave His only begotten, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life'

1st Epistle of John 5:7: 'For there are three that bear record in heaven, the farther, the word, and the holy ghost: and these three are one.'

That was removed, which is I believe if I remember rightly the closet approximation to the trinity mentioned in the ninle.

Also removed was Mark 16:19 and Luke 24:52 and if Iremember rightly Mark 16 ends at verse 8 and the rest is given as a footnote. The ascention of Christ a footnote! An with these two removed there is no mention of the ascention anywhere in the bible.

But alas it did not stay that was as the 1971 version of the RSV is different from the 1952 version. If you have a collins print, I have oneon my lap right here (its a bit old but still 1971 RSV and hence a bible) it says on page let me see ah here we are pages vi and vii

"Many proposals for modifications were submitted to the committee by individuals and by two denominational committess. All of these were given careful attention by the committee."

It goes on "Two passages, the longer ending of Mark (16:9-20) and Luke 25:51 are restored to the text."

So lets get this straight the King James has all these verses in but was written using ancient manuscripts dating back to about say 4-500 hundred years after Jesus's death I think, and the RSV 1952 version was written using the most ancient manuscripts dating back to around I think it is 2-300 years after Jesus, and so there for more accurate, yet in the revision of the 1971 version they have put things back in to the bible on the whim of two denominational committees? Where is the accuracy in that, that was in the King James Version.

Speaking of the King Jamed Version the 1952 RSV gives a good tribute to the King James Version but then goes on to say by the 32 Christian scholors with the backing of 50 co-operating denominations of Christendom (whom worked on the RSV) this "Yet the King James Version has grave defects." and goes on to say "That these defects are so many and so serious as to call for revision..." and hence the RSV 1952.

I did not want to debate on this, my original post was concerning my issues from a non Muslim perspective, this is mixing it with the Muslim perspective.

Adib Qasim

sorry about my spelling mistakes, its late I'm tired, I will reply to your reply when I get out of bed latter.

Good day, incase your wondering its late for me as I work nights.

Adib

Concerning the remarks with the KJV and RSV of the Bible...to tell you the truth most Christians I know use the NIV or the NAS versions of the Bible. These are both thought to be very reliable versions. I personally use both and I also use the ESV. I have never heard of the RSV version and I have been studying the Word for the last six years. I could be completely wrong in all that I have said about the versions of the Bible...but one thing I do know is completely true is that Jesus is the literal Son of God and He did die on the cross for all sins every committed, including yours and mine!!!
Chauncey
Acts 20:24

You've never heard of the revised standard version? oh well...

The RSV dates from 1946-1952 and a revised edition came out in 1971. It was the first of the major modern language translations. It's aim was to give a mora accurate 'translation' than the old King James Version which was written first in 1611. It (the KJV is also called the Authorised Version) by the appointment of the king, Hence King James version. The RSV is respected by many scholars for its accuracy and scholarship at that time as it used the oldest known manuscripts.

My own views and the NIV isthat of many Christians, that it aims at a thought-for-thought rather than a word-for-word translation to communicate the meaning of the original writers.

How do you know its true that Jesus is the literail son of God? amd that he did die on the cross. An the dieing on the cross was not just for sins commited by man, but to nullify the original sin commited by eve on mankind.

Acts 20:24 "But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God."

Nice qoute, let me give you one of my favorite parts from my book.

Sura 3 ayahs 45-48:
Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a word From Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God;"

"He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous,"

She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: God createth what he willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be', and it is!"

"And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,"

Adib

My question is, how can that be one of your favorite parts from your book, when you don't even believe that Jesus is the literal son of God? You asked me how can I believe that Jesus is the literal son of God and how can I know that He died for all our sins...well the answer is simply this...faith!!! I know this may seem like an easy answer, but to truly have faith in Jesus Christ is not easy, it is a complete way of life. How can I believe those things, because I believe 100 percent of the Bible..."All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness" ~2 Timothy 3:16. I guess the thing is that I fully believe that Jesus is the son of God and He was sent here to Earth for us. We are all sinful people (even you can admit that) and we needed someone to take those sins away so we could have fellowship with God. Jesus did that, He came to earth lived the perfect life and was crucified on the cross. He descended into Hell, where he paid for everyone of the sins committed by every person EVER!!! Then He came to earth and showed himself to the disciples...then he ascended into Heaven where He is preparing a place for all those who trust in Him. See the thing is, you can't go to Heaven without believing and accepting Jesus Christ as the one who saved you. "Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father and I too will love him and show Myself to him" ~Galatians 2:20. I have joy in knowing that I am loved by God because I know His Son and because I trust in His son!!! That amazes me...but maybe that is just me!!!
Chauncey
Acts 20:24
"However I consider my life worth nothing, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me, the task of testifying to the Gospel of God's grace."
(the NIV translation)