h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

<>

That's the reason why Muslims from Indonesia to Invercargill, have to learn Arabic, IMO, because the Koran when translated is *Not* the word of God...

All I know on the subject is that Bible translators are really very well aware of such pitfalls and traps, and carefully take them into account.

Many of the advances in linguistics in the 20th century have come from those working to translate the Bible. (For instance I had friends working in Thailand as missionaries who knew the Thai language *very* thoroughly for such reasons.

Vicky

>>That's the reason why Muslims from Indonesia to Invercargill, have to learn Arabic, IMO, because the Koran when translated is *Not* the word of God...<<

Thing is Vicky, it wouldn't matter if I became fluent in ancient Hebrew for the bible, or Arabic for the Koran. I'm still of a totally different culture and time, so I wouldn't fully understand the complexities and subtlety of meanings. All these holy books are culturally specific because people of that time and place wrote them. They are all too human, as is Shakespeare. To a degree we can understand Shakespeare because he's of tour culture, but there will still be many references and meanings we can never fully realise in 21st Britain.

So all this talk of the absolute truth, word of God, of the bible is meaningless.

I am simply putting forward a view that goes towards answering questions asked, I am not insisting on cooking anything up, you're making stuff up now.

For one thing I actually agree with the original point, just made a tiny point about things getting lost in translation and us getting told not to alter the text. C'mon mate if you can't see that then there are bound to be problems. My remark of "what intelligence" was purely a retaliation to your "what a crock" remark.

Vicky,

I can't speak Arabic but as I understand the Qur'an is written in verses and in Arabic these verses have a rythym when recited. Some verses could then be used as a mantra. They just don't sound the same or have that original rythym when translated. I don't think that it's about the word of God so much in that instance.

The Qur'an was given to Mohamud by Gabriel, so it isn't stressed as the word of God as the Bible is. What is being said about stuff being the word of God is daft anyway. Once something is written down it becomes the word of man aswell, and as such is perishable.

Any way here's a simple one for you to think on, if you were God do you think that you'd like to be tied down to something that you may have said 2000+ years ago. And you support freedom c'mon, this is why it's called mother Church and God the father, typically a woman never forgets anything that a man says,cause there's a good chance she can get something out of him for it at a later date. 2000+ years Jesus mother Church is a real hard assed bitch!

>> God do you think that you'd like to be tied down to something that you may have said 2000+ years ago.<<

Yes I believe Pope Ratzy abolished 'Limbo' last year, not that I'm sure God ever mentioned it.

>>The Qur'an was given to Mohamud by Gabriel, so it isn't stressed as the word of God as the Bible is.<<

Yes I've heard it said that Gabriel was a right little monkey. And one of them fell down and became Satan, even though they apparently don't have free will.

Yeah I'm glad to hear the bible is no longer considered the word of God because humans wrote it. When I started school age 4, we were repeatedly brainwashed with the idea that the bible was the word of God. Bloody heretics.

<>

Oh but it is! Humans wrote it, but they were inspired by God. It's imperfect, because it can't be otherwise, but it isn't just a human invention..
Vicky

I was only giving an opinion, the Bible is still considered the word of God by many. To me it seems a bit harsh to tie God down like that.

The men that wrote the Bible were reputedly inspired by God, in the form of his Holy Spirit, so it gets spiritual. The actual words used are human words wich are bound by the same rules as any other Human words. Or should be.

As pointed out the Bible was not a purely human invention, but then if everything is inspired by spirit then nothing is a purely human invention.

<>

With the greatest possible respect, how do you know that? Or is it just one of those things you "just know"?

Sorry to but in,

As far as the God Theory goes, he created everything, if you believe in a Pantheistic God he is also in everything. So everything that was around at the time the Bible was written, was created by God. Writers get their inspiration from their experiences of what's arond them. Therfore the Bible was inspired By God. How could it not be so?

Of course that also means that everything else is also inspired by God too. It's a book for heavens sake, it's for the reader to decide whether it's any good or not surely.

So, to be fair, that's just something you or they "know"...

No authority, evidence, reason...just a bald, unsupported assertion of divine inspiration as fact?

No that isn't it at all,

If you seriously want to investigate a theory, you have to understand the basic concepts. That's something that your logical mind is not letting you do.

If you use the basic concepts of the God Theorem then you can see that there is reason, evidence and authority behind their assertions. If you cant get it yet, then you probably never will, it just demonstrates a bit of a limitted imagination. Which isn't a problem till you go assuming an air of superiority, like so many do.

I beg to differ. If you could tone down the animosity for a moment, Doc, let me assure you that I have investigated the basic concepts of the god "theorum". Indeed years were spent in an ongoing attempt to make me accept them.

It is not my "limitted imagination" that prevented them from succeeding. On the contrary; it was that ability to think outside their box that gave me the tools with which to investigate claims made in doubletalk, with shoddy logic, and intended to deceive.

If you feel that I have "an air of superiority", that may only be a reflection of your deep recognition of the truth: believing in fairy tales, while comforting is, in fact, intellectually inferior to rational thought.

I guess I never will "get it".

I guess you did "get it" and are incapable of getting rid of it.

Please don't patronise me. You haven't the chops for it.

Classifying things is great innit, fairytales are comforting only and convey no practical message at all do they? That is limitting.

For example the Minotaur Myth, that wasn't trying to pass on the message about genetics was it, no it was utter clap trap.

Your intellectual superiority will only be any good for around 80 odd years. Suppose that's good enough for most people.

If you really get it you can get rid of it as and when you feel like, you guessed wrong. Whose patronising who?

You assume that the Church tries to indoctrinate people with dogma, lots of people do. I find it more of an innocultion against worshiping something that is limitting such as Logic. Do that and we all turn into robots. Oh we've already done that one haven't we?

Doc, I see that you've lost whatever ability you might have had to discuss things rationally.

I'm through responding to you as if you had something worth saying.

And by the way, there's only one "t" in limiting.

Happy New Year!!

And to you, all the best for 2008.

can I just ask you, how old do you think Earth is?
To believe in evolution is not to disbelieve in God surely?? At the time the OT was written they had no clue to the amazing things that science has now discovered.....DNA, Genes, atoms, etc etc. The fact is that God could still be the creator, though I have serious doubts myself. It seems to me in respect of the NT so much was omitted by the early Church ( gospel of Philip, Judas, Mary Magdelena ) that we do not have an accurate view of Jesus and a great deal of damage has been done to the position of women as a result of early church bias. It is perfectly possible Jesus was married, Magdelena had a central role in the early church but this didnt suit the early church fathers (catholics). We have to face the fact the bible is NOT accurate, that it HAS been changed and manipulated over the centuries.

<>
I am one of many (perhaps most) Christians who happily accept evolution and the findings of science.
<>
I agree, IMO God is still the creator, and used evolution as the means (although many of the *science* chasps are unhappy with that idea.
<>
But were these not specifically Gnostic gospels written centuries later?
<<. We have to face the fact the bible is NOT accurate, that it HAS been changed and manipulated over the centuries.>>

I disagree here, it hasn't been altered in any *significant* way.

The 4 gospels also were written later...and not by the apostles.
How can U believe the bible isnt manipulated for political reasons? the history of catholicism surely suggests otherwise. It also seems to me that christians find it very easy to ignore the bits of the bible they dont take to.

Hi,

Not been around in a while, the Bible has been manipulated for political reasons, by men with a mind to do such. I believe that the bible was put together in the way it is with the intention of uniting the Roman Empire which was falling apart. It didn't work, within the timescale intended by the editors who turned to ruthless methods to install it. The individual texts themselves would not have been intended to control people, but to advise them.

The trouble with it is that it is limitted by the fact that it is text and texts can be taken many different ways. People who wish to depose the Bible will easily be able to find reasons within it's pages to denounce it. In my experience with it, it is quite difficult not to take it as though God is cruel. However if you stick to the covenant you won't see that, cause I don't know if anyone else has noticed but when you are in love with someone you just don't see the bad things they do.

Everyone outside the relationship can see the bad stuff that is going down and some of them will advise you of these and thus get you to break the covenant, sometimes you may be grateful for this advice at other times it's anoying. One thing is certain though fear of the being you are supposed to love is very bad in a relationship.