h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Who are you addressing Bart?

I was replying to a post by Trillian's Child.

I guess I ranted a little. It just gets a little annoying to always hear "Thick Americans" and such.

I grew up on British culture. My grandfather came from Birkenhead. My mother and I used to watch all the british TV shows and movies we could get. I've had quite a few british friends. I even dated a british girl early in my military career. (who hated America and Americans - still haven't figured that one out.)

Sadly, my love of British culture wears away a little every time I hear some sarcastic remark about the U.S. I've read entries in this guide that had nothing to do with the U.S. but still, the author has to add a nasty remark about us "Stupid Americans." (Received Pronunciation for example - and yes I know what it is and how the accent sounds)

(sigh)

Listen mate.
I LOVE YOU AND ALL THE N AMERICANS
Scre# the rest!

And I like American culture, but that affection is always pared down a little when some thin-skinned whiner complains about other people commenting on 'thick Yanks' or 'ignorant Americans' on this thread. I think we would all admit there are dimmer bulbs among the bright lights everywhere (In Canada, we call them the Canadian Alliance formerly known as the Reform Party) but this thread is about Americans, not Belgians, Arabs, Swiss or Peruvians. There are boneheads everywhere - no nation (or thread) is immune.

That said, on examination I think the U.S. has a profound streak of anti-intellectualism within its culture and an ingrained distrust of expertise. Hence the antipathy toward "ivory tower academics" "college boys" and "fancy book learnin'" and wonderfully enlightened turns of phrase like "If you're so smart how come you ain't rich?" Where else would someone be considered "too smart to be president"?

I don't think this means all or even most or even a significant portion of Americans are smarter or dumber than anyone else. I simply wonder why there such a cultural bias against the intellectually accomplished.

Anti-intellectualism is forgivable when it's a reaction to elitism. In many cases, anti-intellectuals don't hate smart people; they merely resent being patronized by Ivy-leaguers.

There's some sense to "if y'all're so smart, then why ain'tcha rich?" and similar phrases. Typically, these comments are addressed to overeducated people who lack the useful skills (or common sense) to hold down jobs or to live within their means. The most respected Americans are those who can turn their talent and intellect into a productive and/or profitable enterptise.

However, you're correct in saying that this type of thinking is carried to illogical extremes in the U. S., even to the point that intellectuals don't stand a chance of leading the country. Adlai Stevenson is a good example. When told, "You have the thinking person's vote," he replied, "That's not enough, madame, we need a majority." Today, Bush is President not because he's more qualified, but because Al Gore was seen as bookish and mechanical. You know, there's something inherently displeasing about officials being elected solely based on their ability to . . . be elected, I suppose. You know, "personality." I can't think of a viable alternative, though.

Yes, this post is about Americans. Specifically, why all the bashing?

Like I said before, even when the subject has nothing at all to do with the US, someone has to add a comment about how stupid Americans are.

(note I don't feel the need to put down any unrelated countries at this poimt)

Oh yes Rev.
Americans are thick.
Nasa are thick
Snap-on Tools are thick
K & N Filters are thick
You guessed it...YOU are thick boy!

Time and time again it has been stated on this thread that the attitude of one is not of everyone and that not *all* US citizens is what we are talking about. Sometimes not even about the majority, just the glaring exceptions. The *Ugly American* has been a subject of concern and derision for decades, and not only elsewhere in the world- when the book itself was first published in 1958 it led to President Eisenhower reviewing US military standards in foreign countries (notably Southeast Asia, but that is another story).

No one is denying the incredible energy, amazing output, and creative brilliance of the US people. The problem seems to be when their version of capitalism, government, and social mores are thrust upon another people without their consent.

I don't want to know that any Holiday Inn, MacDonalds, or Walmart I go into anywhere in the world is a xerox copy of the one in Gary, Indiana, with a few local touches thrown in to satisfy the city council. I don't want to be able to drink Coke in Peru. Mostly I don't want to have a narrow-minded, fundamentalist religion-based interpretation of a different established religion or way of life direct political actions on the world stage. The *Moral Majority* was invented in the US, just like *Reaganomics* and *Manifest Destiny*. IMHO they are all equally flawed, but the country seems to try them out every once and a while no matter who gets stepped on in the mean time.

Might *doesn't* make Right and never has.
Religion should stay out of politics.
Democracy works on the world stage as well as within countries.

Understand?

The ugly american stereotype has been with us since the days of Mark Twain and probably even earlier,

and thanks Oetzi for proving my point that the thick are everywhere...

Zoom you are saying that American culture has been "sold" to the rest of the "connected world".

The grass is always greener for you Zoom, especially, I guess, from across in Canada.

Your argument is a bit like denying human nature. Of course we too want the idyllic dream of individual nationalistic difference. We want "Uncle Tom's Ironmongers" too, and I have it if I search for it.

I do not want to be rude Zoom and Rev but what sort of world do you believe we live in. I know you are a long way off but I cannot believe that...well....that you have hope that the greed of humanity will somehow disappear just 'cause you don't like Walmart busting your local traders.

No...No.. your gripe is guilt. In Canada you have it all and you know it. It bugs you...don't it?

Enjoy your priveledge..STOP GRIPING!

We sleep next to the giant, and believe me it has been a battle for decades not to get crushed. Our CRTC which is in charge of film, television, and radio long ago made rules that insisted Canadian produced product get preferential treatment. 40% of the music on the radio must have strong ties to Canada or be exclusively Canadian. NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement had been constantly picking at our economy and way of life, with US unions and governments saying our state medical system is a huge advantage and should be modified, saying that our multilingual policies are too costly for the US even though years later they are doing the same with Spanish. We are attacked when we express independent views, saying we support the UN when the US doesn't. When Canada wins an international decision over softwood lumber duties for instance, the US refuses to comply. Those are just a tiny few of the battles we fight with the US every day.

Canada has been voted as the best place to live consistantly in UN and independent studies, and I am sure the advantage that the US gives us is partly to thank. The fact is however that the US is never in that top spot, and is seldom in the top ten.

If I want to *gripe* about all the bad things I see coming out of the US I can. Guess what? In the US they can too, but not too much or the FBI will be on your ass. Or you be labelled as *unpatriotic*. Or your neighbours will burn a cross on your lawn. Or you will be politicized, ostracized, or harassed like so many other *trouble makers*. Grow up, Oetzi- walk in downtown Detroit or South Central LA before you open your mouth. Try burning a flag almost any where in the US. Go into the deep south and say out loud what you might not like there. I don't own a gun and don't want to, but you know what? There are towns in the US where it is illegal *not* to own and carry one. I've been in one and they have drive-through liquor stores as well that will give you plastic glasses with ice with your bottle. Want to go on a vacation? Try San Fransisco- oops! I mean Oakland! You'd have much more fun there, for as long as you last. I was in a traffic jam in Phoenix once and on the news that night I saw why- someone didn't like being cut off in traffic so they sped up, pulled their 38 out of the glove compartment and shot the offender. And they got off due to *road rage* too, although the lady that was shot died. You go ahead and blindly agree with all things US, they need sheep to maintain the system.

You think on Zoom.....
1972 Czech/Austrian border
a river 20ft across
two 16yr old boy swimming
both step out on the Czech side
both shot, one dead, one serious
Shot from a hay stack...legalised state murder.

Sarajevo...?

You tell me about something Zoomer...something I don't know..
Believe me I'll listen.

Great, you remember the Cold War. Do you remember anything else, like the UN or the International Charter of Rights? How about asking if any of your Iraqi friends have had their relatives bombed by Bush? Or if they want him there? They'd be in the minority, even the moderates want him out now and a local government to take over. When he does leave, would you like to make a bet? Want to bet that the military bases they have set up stay and they will be the next cause for more terrorism like the bases in Saudi Arabia.

Get the map out.
Get a pair of dividers and set to 1 000Km
Plonk the pivot in Baghdad and arc the circle.
That's a graphic reply to your last post.
How many variables?

respondent off line

So you agree to foreign bases unwanted on strategic soil? We kicked them out when they wanted to expand the DEW line, Britain restricted them when they wanted more bases during the Cold War.
Now I know what you want, a global dictatorship. The last couple of guys that wanted that met very sticky ends. Do you want to off yourself in your bunker or be known as a fascist who called himself a communist? Hitler or Stalin, take your pick. Big boys with big toys, both. The only thing that violence creates is pain, death, and more violence. You want to compare Saddam with Dubya? The only difference is that one killed and maimed in the spotlight and the other did it in the dark.

The fact is Zoom there is controversy over military instalations.
My house is within a military zone. I love the US F-18s and Harriers 'cause they always thrill me with "a low/slow full wowl pass" I LOVE IT!

In fact I offered to let 'em have avionics stuff in my back yard, but they don't need it. Tough...the ground rent would have been welcome.
As far as deaing with the "certain men in a certain condition" you allude to,,,,,,

Well yes, I guess I do address 'em, when I come across them. I'm adressing you for one example, and sorry, this is personal. My presece is usually enough to settle ambition. On here, h2g2 of course, I have to rhetorically "yap".

Then you folks get all flustered and threaten to report me to the powers that be. Now that, from You Folks, IS A BIT RICH.

On the one hand you claim to be LIBERALS and on the other you want folks like me to be silenced by authority. I wouldn't care if this DNA engine was non-EU piece of kit. Your welcomed here at UK cits expense. This ain't CBC folks it is the BBC...GOD BLESS 'EM!

My God you folks have some affront. Before the day is done I just might trash you from Vienna to Seattle....not a shaman in sight!
Rock On!

Ooooooh! Your PRESCENCE is enough to quell ambition is it! Ooooooh!
I bet those terrorists are quaking in their boot Oetzi. Just like me.
From laughter.

Yes, we all know you claim to a 6 foot 5 inch man-mountain who lives on raw meat and stag's blood and can kick the tar out of a whole platoon of dastardly liberals with a single swipe of your mighty paw, but guess what? Neither I, nor anyone else here I suspect much cares how mighty or macho you are. You don't frighten us, you don't anger us. You merely annoy and occasionally amuse us with your mindless rants and foolish antics.
If I took you seriously at all you'd probably just make me sad.
You are behaving like a windbag and a bully.
No one here is going to report you to the powers that be or ask to have you removed. The people who run this site have rules and you seem to revel in ignoring them, so in the long run they will probably bar you without any of us asking.
This post, inasmuch as it is a bit insulting probably breaks those rules too, but as far as I'm concerned it needs to be said.

There, now you've gotten a rise out of one of us, satisfied?

I'm amazed rev. Gobsmacked in fact.
I rarely succeed, but I'm glad your engaged at least.

>>I simply wonder why there such a cultural bias against the intellectually accomplished.<<
Sadly, Rev, we get the same bias here. A newspaper columnist ranted against an article by a couple in the paper last week, and they had a brilliant letter pubbed yesterday, in which they asked just exactly what was so bad about being academics? (They are psychologists at the University, and married to each other.)
The columnist had used the same phrase - 'Ivory tower academics'!