h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"So it seems to me that what is mostly wrong with Americans is that they are from the rest of the world!" "...Americans (If such a creature truly exists)..."

Nonsense! Why do people continue to say things like this? It's a cop out! The vast majority of Americans were born in the USA. The majority of Americans have been American for several generations. The vast majority of Americans don't have a passport.

With the exception of small pockets of Africa (where mankind could be said to have evolved) most nations are peopled by immigrants if you want to go back far enough. IT MEANS NOTHING!

The majority of Americans are AMERICANS who know little or nothing of their extraction. It's time they started taking responsibility for that fact.

There's nothing wrong with Americans... There's nothing wrong with removing Sadam Hussein. There's something wrong with killing (or sending to death) hundred (or thousands ?) of people (from both sides) and then having some more people die, because you didn't think there was something after a war...

"There's nothing wrong with removing Sadam Hussein."

Per se, that's true. But there's everything wrong with going to war based on a bunch of pretexts that turn out to be lies and misconceptions, costing the lives of thousands of people for no good reason and leaving a situation worse than the one you (supposedly) went there to change.

All for the sake of American empire building.

The American population allowed this situation to be created and they perpetuate it. Now what was that about there being nothing wrong with Americans?

For many years the Ford F150?thread=For many years the Ford F150?thread=For many years the Ford F150?thread=For many years the Ford F150?thread=For many years the Ford F150?thread=For many years the Ford F150?thread=For many years the Ford F150?thread=For many years the Ford F150?thread=For many years the Ford F150?thread=For many years the Ford F150?thread=For many years the Ford F150?thread=For many years the Ford F150?thread=For many years the Ford F150?thread=For many years the Ford http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/45758/article.html Why IS that? Why would anyone voluntarily drive a truck when there are plenty of very good cars on the market? Is it because Americans are all so overweight that they need the extra load space? Is it because it's easier to fit a gun rack? Is it because driving a gass-guzzler gives Americans an excuse to invade the world's second largest oil producing nation and steal its resources? Is it all of the above?

I'm glad your content in your preciuos opinion Sky.
But then you can afford to be.

In Europe we can't.
We have experienced it all. Not just the usual war horrors, but
the psychological intimidation as well.

Your fight is our fight. That fight is against cowardly terrorism.
No sky..we welcome your opinion. At least you are honest.

There's nothing wrong at all with you!

"Nonsense! Why do people continue to say things like this? It's a cop out! The vast majority of Americans were born in the USA. The majority of Americans have been American for several generations. The vast majority of Americans don't have a passport."

You probably don't have an understanding of how imigration can have an effect on subsequent generations.
Anyway perhaps you could name a nation, any nation, that behaves differently, when it owns the big stick

What I was saying is that we are all human beings, no matter where we live and where we originate and we are consistant in our flaws.

There maybe mitigating reasons for the violent ousting of Sadam but what possible justification can the US security services give for helping him to power and supplying him with the weapons for his worst atroscities in the first place?

I understand what you were saying, Moth and I agree in principle. But to attribute the behaviour of Americans to their heritage is ridiculous.

To allow a person to abdicate responsibility for something by saying "look at what my ancestors did", is a cop out. A person is mostly a product of their environment.

Machiavellian greed..that's what Blicky!

I'm not quite sure what you're on about, Oetzi. Are you saying that, being European, you can't be content in your opinion?

If you really want to fight cowardly terrorism, start by fighting George W Bush. There's no cowardly terrorism more powerful and threatening than that which originates from him.

Sky...not a truer word.
I HATE WAR
But my family has fought so often for freedom.
My son may have to again.
I missed the fight.

I dont think Moth was trying to get the US gov off the hook for its recent and present actions. What he possibly and certainly I myself are trying to say is that US bashing is a little pontless as it ignores the fact that its not a US exclusive problem.

I am sick and tired of people going on about the US like, as a freind of mine puts it, "their own sh*t dont stink".

Pointing the finger at one country misses the point that the US government is acting more than anything on behalf of multinational companies. So while they still make profite all around the world from our spending on their products those companies will still be able to "buy" puppet heads of state like the Bush's and Reagan.

The very reason that the US backed Iraq in the war against Iran was that Iran was embarking on a path of development which rejected western capitalist norms and the people who run the US thought it would be bad for business if they prospered. So they financed a war that would waste Irans resources and make it look like they had failed because they had left the international community. When Sadam gave up waging war in a way that pleased his US masters he himself became their next target. A country like Iraq with huge oil reserves acting independently was a real no-no for them.

Now if ANYONE here thinks their own government acts for freedom before the interests of rich companies they should think again.

I would contend that there is a a difference between acting to benefit the interests of rich companies and invading a sovereign state and bombing it back to the stone age for them. It may only be a matter of degree, but it is an important difference.

Sky
"Americans to their heritage is ridiculous."

We ARE all of us products of our heritage (which includes our environments), to say otherwise is nonsense . (how many different environments are there in the US and can this account for generalisations )
I don't believe that this is a cop out at all . I'm merely saying that we should all look to our own governments before we start throwing stones at anyone. I have suggested we ALL take responsibilty rather than encouraging anyone nation to abdicate their own.

Not that I am any great fan of huge corporations but when was the last time Finland went to war to benefit Nokia? Who has Japan invaded lately to help Sony or Toyota fill their pockets? And what about those vicious Swedes and the horrors they have perpetrated on behalf of Ikea?
For most large corporations political power and lobbying is part of the game, but so is innovation, service, prudent risk-taking, entrepreneurship and all those other thing business is supposed to be about. For oil, aerospace, munitions and chemical firms (to name a few industries and certainly not all!) profitability is more often found by playing power politics, dodging government regulations and feeding at the public trough. These companies are the reason that the Bush administration refuses to increase the tax on gasoline or impose milage requirement on car makers. Companies like Enron that make a fortune by buying up privatized public utilities in South America, Europe and the U.S. get rich by bribing the government to sell of what should be publically owned then running it "more cost effectively" by foregoing maintainence, busting union, cutting staff and running the essential services like water and power grids, into the ground while gouging consumers. Funny how most of these companies seem to be U.S. and U.K. based. Though there are several in France and Germany too. Maybe even some in Canada....

Of course blowing up other countries is a return to old ways for commercial concerns in the industrial West. For the past thirty years or so we have been simply exporting the weapons letting nations destroy each other and then turining up to countries who have been bombed back to the stoneage and presenting them with the bill for the weapons used.

Hands up anyone who thinks the war on terror is working?

I do actually we are getting more terror attacks and we will soon be begging our govs to take away more human rights in the interest of security. Thing is it is only working for those who benefit from it and have so much protection they'll never feel it.

Cannot disagree rev.

I think Bill Hicks said it best when he called the first war the "Persian Gulf Distraction"

paper boy stick to delivering papers and let the more intelligent people discuss this his thread. "when was the lastnime findland went to war" you seem to forget that their not a threat to the murders in the middle east they attack the biggest and best countries i.e america and the uk.terrorism will never win.

Cannot disagree with you either Babs!