h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The other day I read an article in which Terry Pratchett said that Ankh-Morpork [the biggest city on DiscWorld] was based on London. I was surprised by that, because Ankh-Morpork is built on the ruins of much older cities, just as Rome is. It occupies a position analogous to Rome near the shores of the Circle Sea. Ankh-Morpork is governed by a "Patrician" chosen from city's most noble families [ancient Rome had patricians, too], and the current Patrician is named Vetinari. The "Old Language" that is sometimes referred to is either Latin, or something very close to Latin.

There may be places in Ankh-Morpork that are very similar to places in London, of course. I've only ever been to London twice, which doesn't qualify me as an expert on that city.

Does anyone who is familiar with both London and the DiscWorld series have any insights as to what Londonish aspects of Ankh-Morpork there are?

as far as I know, London (like York and most other old cities/towns in the UK) is built layer upon layer of older versions of itself.

If anything I think Ankh-Morpok is based on the London we all know and love from the 70s when the fish didn't swim in the river.

I always rather thought that Ankh-Morpork was based on citiness, rather than a specific city. There are so many allusions to so many places*, too many to say that AM should be read as a discworldified London.

* Like its nickname, the Great Wahoney (sp?), which is a sort of Big Apple; whereas the Unseen University has an OxBridgean feel about it. The Shadows are what Jack the Ripper's East End must have been like. And so on.

The Great Wahoonie I would think is based upon 'The Great Wen', an old nickname for London. (A wen is a facial wart, or similar).

Surely more obviously based on 'The Big Apple'?

Just out of interest, board games designer Martin Wallace has published best-selling games of both Ankh-Morpork and London.

http://www.treefroggames.com/games

The games are nothing like each other, but London DOES involve building layers of the city over older layers, which struck me as quite poetic when reading Post 1.

B

There are old sewers and other passages under Ankh-Morpork from a much earlier time. Rome had catacombs. Perhaps it had some type of water pipes. Are there many millennia-old pipes and passages under London? I'm curious.

What I wondered in particular was whether sections such as The Shades and the brass bridge correspond to real places in London, eithewr now or in the past?

Yup, they walked. Occasionally forming Guilds embarking upon "fishing trips" on the Embankment to mug unwary tourists and the odd Gollum.

Ankh-Morpork reminds me of the City of London, which is itself the oldest democracy in the world, pre-dating Parliament . http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/about-the-city/who-we-are/lord-mayor-and-chairmen/mansion-house/Pages/History-of-the-Government-of-the-City-of-London.aspx

What do you mean by "oldest democracy in the world?" I thought the ancient Greeks had some claim to that. Or, if not them, then the ancient Romans. Or did you mean oldest continuous democracy?

The city-state of Athens had the first to have atrue democracy. Finland had the first true universal democracy. There are some who say New Zealand was the first.

Rome is thought to have founded in or around 753 BC. London was founded by the Romans between 43 and 50 AD. It was not the capital city of Britain at the time.

here's a link to the Guardian, which discusses the different claims:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqueries/query/0,,-80426,00.html

Sorry, you're right. It's the oldest continuous municipal democracy.

I thought it was mainly based on London, with the Red Light district, not forgetting Persepolis Yard, the river and the underground tunnels.

I don't know London very well, but I did notice a pub called "The Mended drum" in Regensburg a couple of months back.

There is a pub in Baldock, Herts called The Broken Drum.

PP.

>> Finland had the first true universal democracy. There are some who say New Zealand was the first.<< : paulh @ post 8

Hmm, must admit to a sucking of teeth there - Is he having a go? Yet...

"... traces the evolution of today's voting system - from the first election in 1853, the creation of Maori seats in 1867, the world-leading women's suffrage legislation of 1893, and the dramatic transition to proportional representation in the 1990s."

http://www.otago.ac.nz/press/booksauthors/backlist/adventures_in_democracy.html

1st 3 paras, specifically the 3rd.

- - - -

A little clarification?
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/politics/milestones
scroll down to:
1879
Universal suffrage is introduced for all males aged over 21.
1893
Universal suffrage is introduced for women aged over 21 (including M&#257;ori). New Zealand becomes the first self-governing country to grant the right to vote to all adult women.



Rod

I thought it was based on Wincanton in Somerset:

http://static.blipfotos.com/uploads/49155/2010/19217568044cf6b0eee16787.38494022.jpeg

Given that it's in somerset, much of the citizenry is likely to be similar

Ouch

I always assumed that different parts of it are based on different places. There are definitely bits of York, Oxford (Bridge of Sighs = both Venice and Oxford) and London, and wherever else seemed like a good idea at the time.

<BB<

I thought Ankh Morpork is immediately recognizeable as London, even if I have only once been to London when I was 5 or 6 years old. It also very much gets appearent when you read TP's newest bookd 'Dodger', which plays in London at the time of Charles Dickens.

also, have a lookat the map of Ankh Morpork:
http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1357/22/1357225488595.jpg

and an old map of London:
http://www.discusmedia.com/pictures/maps/000/00/m/0004793m.jpg

No, Ankh-Morpork is NOT London. It is Ankh-Morpork, of course. It may have been modelled after London, but is essentially the abstraction of what a CITY is. Anyone who is utterly unfamiliar with London, but has seen, say, Mumbay or Minneapolis or Hamburg or Moscow or Rio de Janeiro or Capetown or Sydney or even Castropp-Rauxel will recognize Ankh-Morpork for being cityish.

Y.

"I thought it was mainly based on London, with the Red Light district, not forgetting Persepolis Yard, the river and the underground tunnels.
I don't know London very well, but I did notice a pub called "The Mended drum" in Regensburg a couple of months back." [TC]

That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! It would be logical if Pratchett had places like that in mind, as something to build on.
Ankh-Morpork doesn't have any democracy, though. Vetinari seems like something out of Machiavelli, who was Florentine.

"I always assumed that different parts of it are based on different places. There are definitely bits of York, Oxford (Bridge of Sighs = both Venice and Oxford) and London, and wherever else seemed like a good idea at the time" [Bluebottle]

It's a composite, then. Maybe New Yorkers could see bits of their own city in Ankh-Morpork. Likewise Romans, Chicagoans, etc. My thanks to everyone who has weighed in on this matter.