h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I wonder how many embrace social darwinism and reject ethics and community.

>> My daughter's always loved dancing. <<

Thanks for confirming my intuitive image of the grape stomping.
I knew there was something like that going on and I could see
the pretty feet, the ankles, the flying skirts.
Dare I say I think we both know where her talent lies.

~jwf~

PS: Be prepared to duck when Hoo comes back to spit on this idea.
He lacks any appreciation for the possibility of such magics.

I do want Hoo to explain what made him go "wow"

Was it the fact that we acknowledge the occupational hazards? Or should I have dictatorially put my foot down and said "no, I forbid you to follow your dreams"?

Or the fact that we don't have a 5-10 year plan?

The fact that you appear quite happy to have me and others like me pay for your daughter's privilege of following her dreams, without any apparent plan to pay for it yourself, or have her pay for it, or, worst of all, any apparent shame for the fact that you're a parasite and you've raised a parasite.

As for this:

"Those people advocating choosing jobs that they personally hold in contempt for what they perceive to be their financial advantages over the jobs/professions that they chose....

Would you trade places now and for the rest of your working lives, if it were feasible to do so?"

Are you kidding? In a heartbeat. Triple my holiday entitlement and quadruple my pay (neither of which would put me anywhere near what that dolt in charge of the LTA is on) and I'd cheerfully drown kittens for a living. I can follow my dreams on my days off and at weekends...

And of course, I appreciate art in most of its forms (although I could happily live in a universe without opera), but if someone needs *telling* to become a dancer, or a musician, or whatever, then they shouldn't be one. The only people who should become such things are the ones who cannot be told not to be, the ones who, although they may be able to *do* something else, cannot *be* something else. If you have to ask "should I be a dancer", the answer is always "no".

"I could happily live in a universe without opera..." [Hoovooloo]

I knew that you felt that way, because of another thread. If you did live in a universe without opera, I would try to find one that had no heavy metal or rap or hip hop. But there's no such universe, so I don't begrudge anyone else the things that make them happy.

"if someone needs *telling* to become a dancer, or a musician, or whatever, then they shouldn't be one. The only people who should become such things are the ones who cannot be told not to be, the ones who, although they may be able to *do* something else, cannot *be* something else. If you have to ask "should I be a dancer", the answer is always "no"."

That's very sound advice.

I'm wondering how many of us actually have a choice prior to setting out on the journey.

For myself and many - probably most - of my contemporaries and people I've talked to, it was a case of get what you can. There will be choices later, if you recognise them or make them.

As for the rest - education is for Life, not for work.

To be clear, I don't begrudge those who like opera their opera - it's just pretty much the only artform I can think of, of which there's not a single example I can honestly say I like at all. Anyone who likes it is welcome to it, and I can even tolerate listening to certain bits of it for short periods - I just find it odd that I can appreciate at least one example of practically every other form of music or indeed any art there is, just not opera.

I think I am broadly with the follow your enjoyment/ talents camp myself, rather than the pick an arbitrary career and work towards that collective, assuming that there is no strong preference for a particular career already.

That said, I think the sorts of career tests that are very vague and non-subject specific (are you a people person/ do you like doing things with your hands) aren't as helpful as they might be. But 'do you like history/ maths/ music/ judo' and how much and are you actually any good at them has merit.

However, I do also think there is something to be said for having a good hard pragmatic look at where those choices might get you and tweaking either the some of the subject choices or perhaps deciding to get as much experience via part time work or volunteer work as possible in a given area. And I also think that when having the look then some decisions about pay and the likelihood of getting a job in a given field might be in order.

Thing is, also pragmatically, you are more likely to be better at something you have some aptitude for, and more likely to enjoy it too. My thinking about jobs too, is that even if you decide that you will use your free time to pursue your real interests, you do have to spend a heck of a lot of time at work, even doing the minimum, so you might as well enjoy it a bit. You'd really have to be earning more money than, realistically, most people do for that to start to outweigh a job you don't like at all. I'd imagine.

But to be honest, in some ways there is a lot to be said to just making a choice, any choice and then giving it a real college try.

Mind you, if I'd been that sensible and forward thinking, I wouldn't do what I do now, and I quite like what I do now. Any dissatisfaction with the current state of my career is mainly from a decision I made a few years back, ie mid career. So.

Ah, thanks for explanation Hoo.

So the definition of "parasite" is someone who's worked hard to get themselves into 3rd level education, but isn't studying something that Hoovooloo deems important. I'll be sure to ask for your approval next time a family member wants to do a course in anything.

Presumably claiming Jobseekers allowance would have been a better option, hmmm?

Actually, she'd have found a job. Any job. This girl has spent her summers working in a call-centre, where, to be frank, she discovered that she has a knack for engaging with people over the phone, and has an empathy for other people - a skill I wish I had more of myself.

A life without opera is a life impoverished
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf42IP__ipw

It seems like a lot of people here feel like a life and career is just something that happens to them. Am I mistaken?

I've built my career. I'm not fabulously wealthy or anything, but I've been the first person to hold my position in the last three positions I've held. I made two of them what I wanted them to be. My current transfer wasn't voluntary. I was requested by my current commander because of my skills and reputation. He created the position I currently hold (which I'm grateful for because it gives me the flexibility to go to law school).

It hasn't all gone my way. I was active on this site when quit my last agency, and only approached the sheriff for a job because I was looking for a job that paid over $30k, but since them I rose rapidly by making mostly smart choices.

Is the outlook so different in Europe?

Margaret Thatcher said there is no such thing as society, she was mistaken but she helped fragment and destroy society. In the end you will get a collection of people going hither and thither, with all roles that bind community being derided and neglected, leading to brainless collective that in time and through the generations rapidly destroys itself and its unseen but essential connections to the life support system.

Two Bit,
I doubt if things are so different in Europe (or indeed, most other places)

There will be people whose careers parallel yours and people not so smart (or so lucky?).

In different times this little boy might have consciously built a career... but then maybe wouldn't have had some of those interesting things happen to him.

"the definition of "parasite" is someone who's worked hard to get themselves into 3rd level education, but isn't studying something that Hoovooloo deems important"

Well, if they're "studying" something that I'd count as a hobby, or something that isn't a *requirement* of employment in that area, then yes - they're a parasite. And there are plenty of such subjects being offered by "universities" in this country.

If you're independently wealthy and can afford the luxury of a tertiary education merely to enrich and broaden your character, then fine. But if you're deferring your tuition fees and getting a student loan (whose preferential terms are underwritten by the taxpayer), you'd better be doing something worthwhile with your time.

"she'd have found a job. Any job"

Oh, of course. I forgot. The UK is a golden land of opportunity and adventure, and anyone who wants a job, any job, can simply walk into one.

Have you SEEN the news since 2007?

Shut up, HooLOOvoo.

I am not a parasite.

I'm not going to get drawn into a personal squabble. There are clearly differences of opinion, and that is as it should be.

Of the dancers I know none have made it 'big' as a dancer, they have though loved the permorming they have done,still do, paid or otherwise

They have gone on to become teachers,in schools, or self employed, one went on to be a youth worker,did dance groups for fitness and creativity but had a range of creative skills that were applicable to the facilities they have on offer

all of them have have managed to weather the recession, one has definately paid of her student loan, not sure about the others, whatever, they are self supporting having left education

None regret their choice, none feel that their dreams were shattered because they weren't the next Darcy Bussell or whoever, they are well rounded, working people who are making a contribution to society on a number of levels

Do I have to say that I don't in any way consider people who are not in work or are unable to pay off their students loans as parasites, probably not but there I have anyway

I was just saying that this route of study is as valid as another and is not a dead end in terms of employment

To get back to the topic, I think its important to remember that certain skills and professions are used in lots of different areas.

For instance, as an accountant, I could work in the public sector, or the health service, or education, or local government. I could work for a big firm of accountants specialising in tax advice to rich clients and multinationals. I could work for a charity. Or whatevever manufacturing firms we still have. Or set up in pactice on my own. Each of those has a totally different feel and possibly even lifestyle. Certainly the salaries vary.

So my advice would be to think about the skills that your daughter shows an aptitude for, study those, and then see how those could be used in the arenas she'd like to work in.