h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

>>So... you basically agree with me, then?<<

I agree with your conclusion that teaching is a bad gig for the moment but I disagree with your working out.

Saying academies and free schools weeds out the bad teachers is not just over-simplifying it, it's completely wrong. The crap teachers move around, just like they always have, and keep ahead of their crap reputations. The ridiculous terms and conditions of academies actually make the good teachers, the ones who'd be successful in another field, decide they can't be bothered and move out of teaching or to a nice, cushty middle-class school where the T&Cs might still be onerous but the kids are at least nice. It's a particular problem in inner-cities and rural areas where good, inspiring teachers are needed most.

The main reason I'd advise against teaching is because egotists in government (of all colours - Labour are just as culpable as the Tories) thing education is the easiest way to make a mark and change it, just so they can say they did, that they had a permanent legacy (that lasts right until the next Education Secretary comes in) and it means the goalposts are constantly moving. Teachers train and retrain for things that never actually happen (vocational diplomas anyone? They were supposed to be mainstream by now) and many are constantly trying to second-guess what happens next.

There's also the infuriating delusion that going to school makes you an expert on education and so people who haven't the first clue about the sector thing they know it all, leading to the widespread disregard people hold teachers in. It's like thinking that crossing a bridge regularly makes you qualified to speak on principles of engineering.

"Saying academies and free schools weeds out the bad teachers is not just over-simplifying it, it's completely wrong"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Why did you say it, then? Because I didn't.

I said academies would bring an end to *job security* for these dolts.

I went on to say that the rise of academies would "make the good teachers, the ones who'd be successful in another field, decide they can't be bothered and move out of teaching". I didn't use those *exact* words - you did. I used almost those exact words, though. "anyone with any concern for their own wellbeing gets the hell out of the profession", I said. We seem to be in violent agreement that academies will see a flight from the profession by those with initiative and the skills to be mobile, leaving behind the weak, the useless and the newly-qualified.

So, you not only agree with my conclusions, but my reasons. Why do you feel the need to pretend you don't?

I absolutely disagree with not studying engineering and things like that. Everything that has something to do with technoloy has a future because everyone needs it. Basically without someone who invents new technologies, machines or finds new stuff in chemistry most of the other people who studied anything would have a very different life.

I once did a 2-day career finding workshop thingy when I was at school. It really was quite useless. It is probably nice for some people because they find out new possibilities, but I wouldn't choose a career only because a test said it. My test result basically said that I'm completely antisocial and should do some kind of craftmanship. Now I'm an architect, because architecture is what I did since I was 5 or 6. I started drawing plans in elementary school.

So I really think it's best to look at hobbies and interests. And there are loads and loads of careers people often doen't even have any idea about.

I also think it would probably be a good idea to get information material from several universities to see what they offer. Maybe there is a kind of weird subject that fits perfectly but you didn't even know it exists.

"Everything that has something to do with technoloy has a future because everyone needs it. Basically without someone who invents new technologies, machines or finds new stuff in chemistry most of the other people who studied anything would have a very different life"

That's all very well and nice and laudable in the bullshit fantasy world where we still have a manufacturing economy, a meritocracy, and what you gain from your career is based on what you contribute.

I had assumed the OP was asking for advice based on what happens in the real world - the world where we have a service economy, advancement is unrelated to merit and far more to do with who you (or your parents) know, and pay is unrelated to contribution.

The invention of new stuff will of course continue, but my base assumption (was I wrong?) was that the youth in question was based in the UK and had no immediate plans to go and live somewhere else. I was making the (possibly erroneous) assumption that the thrust of the question was "how can I maximise my lifetime happiness?", based on the idea that one maximises happiness by addressing one's hierarchy of needs.

Take a look at the Maslow's hierarchy of needs diagram: http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs.png&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs.png&h=1124&w=1717&sz=374&tbnid=3r2bAki_S7VHtM:&tbnh=84&tbnw=128&zoom=1&usg=__ufdSrw6HP9ws66wreXsiAjscqzc=&docid=qxclxaIkaphHbM&sa=X&ei=yY4HUbKVDMmGhQey4oDgDg&ved=0CE4Q9QEwBA&dur=300

It makes me angry when I hear impressionable youths being offered that pernicious shit about "following what interests them" or "do what makes them happy" or similar.

Unless you're independently wealthy, here's the newsflash - you don't get to do what makes you happy. Your first priority, beyond securing food and shelter, is security of resources, employment and property. Until you have that, even your friendships and relationships will suffer. You can get confidence and self-esteem only once your relationships are sorted... and then, and only then, do you get to think about self-actualisation, creativity etc.

Telling a teenager that they should base their life choices on the possibility of self-actualisation, when they've not even got any realistic plan for security of property or health, is the worst disservice you can do for them. It's a betrayal of the trust they've placed in you when they asked your advice.

What you should actually do is parlay whatever talents you may have into the job that pays the most and requires the least work and personal risk. This will secure your material needs, and you can address your relationship and self-esteem needs thereafter. In your spare time, you can pursue self-actualisation.

The romanticisation of the starving artist in their attic studio makes me want to spit.

Well, of course, if you want to be 'an artists' that could be tricky, but there are loads of other jobs where you can be creative for instance. And at least where I come from people who studied something to do with technology or maths have not a lot of problems to find a job and are also payed ok.
I myself got a job after the first job interview I ever had (not the first application, no). I absolutely do not regret having studied a subject that is basically a mixture of arts and technology and I *am* talking about the real world here.

There are subjects in thechnological studies where companies get the students even before they are done with studying.

I would on the other hand absolutely advise against studying some wishi-washi thing like 'economy'. Lots of companies would rather take a mathematician for the job and what do you really learn there and what can you do with it?

>>The National Careers Service seems to be a good place to start

That seems to be for someone older. To clarify, my daughter is wondering which career to *study* for; at this stage, she wants to think about which subjects to take, because she is at secondary school. Her thinking about possible careers is only to provide a focus for deciding what to study.


>>If the youth is unlucky, they'll useually end up following advice of career advisors and the like, ../

Yes, I made the mistake of listening to the career's advisor, because as a child I assumed they might know what they're talking about. Hopefully things are better these days though.

Hmmm. Go to Google, or YouTube, and search for a short video entitled "Shift Happens".

It highlights how quickly things change these days, particularly jobs and careers. It's very hard to pinpoint NOW a career that she might aim for in 5-10 years time, given the rapid pace of change.

I can give you my own story. I have a boy and a girl. When my son was aged about 13 he wanted to be a pilot. He considered the RAF, and joined the cadets. As he grew older, he had difficulties in the latter part of his school years, eventually dropping out of the system altogether. When he was about 16, he found his way back into education via music, especially the technology side of things. He managed to get a place studying Theatre Practice in Central School of Speech and Drama, where he's just graduated. While at Uni, he joined the TA, and I was at his pass-out parade last May.


Soooooo... the original plan to be a pilot didn't work out, but his RAF leanings have been translated into other military activities. He's got a degree in something that he enjoys doing, and is making a living at it, and planning to move to the States, where that type of work is avaiable, and his qualification will enable him to get a work visa.

My daughter's always loved dancing. She has an aptitude for languages too, but gave up a 4th A level in Spanish as it was just taking up too much time (plus you can learn langauges later on, doesn't have to be at school). She'd worked her way up through ballet grades, and was getting paid as her ballet teachers assistant, and really enjoying teaching the little ones. She considered going into teacher training, knowing she could still keep dancing as a hobby, but the entrance requiremetns were really tough (and in the end she wouldn't have got good enough grades to do that). So she's now training as a dancer (yes, you can do a degree in dance. Hush now.)

It's a short and brutal career, and one that's very poorly paid. But it's what she loves. We haven't really got a plan for what happens afterwards, or if she gets injured. I'm confident that her perosnality and resourceful nature will see her through no matter what life throws at her. Plus who knows what sort of world we'll be in in 5 or 10 years time?

TL:DR

Encourage her to study what she enjoys most.

If there's an interest in Science, Technology, Engineering, or Math, you can get a job in the states if you can't find something in the Europe.

"It's a short and brutal career, and one that's very poorly paid. But it's what she loves. We haven't really got a plan for what happens afterwards, or if she gets injured"

Wow.

Really. Just... wow.

Well, I'm sure *she'll* be grateful for your advice when I'm paying for her food and accommodation out of my taxes...

Yeah, it would of course be a much better world if ther were no dancers, musicians, actors, artists, engineers and the like because they all get no job obviously. I absolutely agree with you Hoo...

"What you should actually do is parlay whatever talents you may have into the job that pays the most and requires the least work and personal risk. This will secure your material needs, and you can address your relationship and self-esteem needs thereafter. In your spare time, you can pursue self-actualisation.

[Hoovooloo]

There are many people who do exactly that. It might work in this case, or it might not. Many people sort of fall into jobs that are good enough. Some of these make careers out of them, as my father did. There are inevitably going to be other scenarios, though. Maybe the family gets so big that the old job doesn't bring in enough money to support everyone. Maybe the company fails or lays you off. Maybe someone comes to you with a better opportunity. Maybe the knight on the white horse comes along and sweeps you off your feet. I don't think this is awfully likely, but it does happen once in a while. Maybe "be flexible and roll with the lunches" would be good advice.

"The romanticisation of the starving artist in their attic studio makes me want to spit"

Feel free to do that, but not here. I think there are rules against spitting. ou'll notice that there isn't even a smiley for that.

A 'youth' should find out what jobs in companies add the least value to a company and you'll find those are the best paid ones e.g. human resources/accountancy/'admin'(especially in academia)/'quality assurance'/SHE(in some companies)/project management(in a lot of cases).

Don't go into anything that actually helps create something like engineering/science/IT(in some cases) as you won't get paid as much as the other roles and you'll be treated like shit on the soles of the scroungers shoes.

Not everyone can be financiers, bankers, auditors, managers ... there has to be people that produce and create.

Some people paint a selfish world, with everybody out to get the most for themselves with least effort, so that they can actualise themselves while loathing those that are unable to eek out a living. But yes it is an accurate picture of the modern western paradigm that is being globalised.

I think young people should be allowed time and space to develop their own bitterness and prejudices to their maximum potential.

Something I should have said last night: if she does choose Maths, Chemistry and History the person responsible for the timetable at her school will *hate* her. I'm currently plotting against a lad who's made a similar choice and now I've got to build the timetable essentially around him.

It doesn't matter that it was me who advised him to do these subjects, I still blame him for making my job difficult

Don't go blaming yourself!

I'm sure there's someone round here that we blame for all sorts.

...you called?

Project management is a fabulus job!: defiantely the one to go for... My project manager on my last job was so err unqualified. He didn't know anythign about programming, or webdesign, or web-accessibility, or education, or, err anything else that was involved in the work. Luckily he employed a really clever Spanish programmer, some clever 'educational stuff' people (err not quite sure what they're background was, cept they semed to have appropiate degrees), and then they employed me, and between us, we designed the project for him for which he got paid £40K Plus per year, and, not sure about the others but I got £12K per year (on .5 FT) Mind, he didn't hold on to his job long after I got laid off but I know he went straight into a simularly paid job that'll teach me to go off and get first class honers degrees and masters degrees... I think he might have had some random 2:2, or 2:1, in something vague

hmmm. actually seeing as how random peoples employment tends to be, in relation to their qualifications (OK, cept for some specific stuff, like doctors etc), It probably doesn't make the slightest differnt hwat one studies... A language might be a good bet; something I noticed a while ago, was the increase in jobs, that wanted* as a 'necessary' 'tallent' of the applicant a language; French, German, seemed quite popular, but also others; and these were jobs from technical writing positions, editorial positions, programmers, web-design stuff, technical (medical) sales stuff, etc., etc., basically where they want someone with degree X (science/biology/programming/whatever0, but who has also got enough of a language to be able to allow the job to work across to their partners in whatever country it is... Mind, they werne't paying much more than the same kind of jobs without the language addition
Still seems to be a trend, towards more 'service sector' jobs, especially with aging populations and the like (care workers etc), but those jobs are so apaulingly badly paid, for the work, that might not be a career avenue one actually 'wants' to aim to go into

If I don't find work soon, I may seirously have to look at a career change... and a move into the 'service' sector... Mind, the 'service' sector I was thinking about, is probably still illegal

On a more serious point than my last post...

Those people advocating choosing jobs that they personally hold in contempt for what they perceive to be their financial advantages over the jobs/professions that they chose....

Would you trade places now and for the rest of your working lives, if it were feasible to do so?

Yes. Instantly.

The following is a wally who gets paid £640,000 year. His initial policy of employing tennis coaches of multiple grand slam champions on celebrity wages was a complete disaster:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/20773530