h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Sarkie,

You take after your name I see......

You cannot in your state worship Almighty God acceptably to Him anyway, so the problem does not arise.

Almighty God does not use your, or any other human being's, rule of what is right and what is not. He uses His own standard, measuring by Himself, which standard I have related here and there.

NO human being is a free person, all are slaves to sin, and cannot exercise any such free choice as you say. It is only if God choose to call and save someone are they delivered from the power of sin and death and can choose between sin or righteousness in the eyes of God.

However, that is not the subject of this thread. What is your view of the original points on the thread?

Yours, Justin

I did a very long stint of bible study, so stop trying to guess who and what I am, you know nothin about me.

I only post my opinion, and my opinion as that you hate the people who do not follow your ways, and that you are a hate monger.

Kaz,

You may have considered what you did as a long stint, but you never were born again, or you would not tell such monstrous lies. Let me repeat; there is NO hate in me for anything but sin and Satan. I do no hate any human being.

But you are free to consider me a bare-faced liar if you wish. But I am more than aware what God says He is going to do to all liars, and other sinners.

Justin,

Fair call. I guessed you had an agenda underneath the question, along those sort of lines. Nothing wrong with that, I hasten to add, show me the question that doesn't. I've played the same game myself, and there is a certain amount of satisfaction in watching people fall into the pattern you expected.

You are leaving youself wide open to these attacks, though. Just in your reply to me I can see three or four points which some people round here are going to pick up and lob back at you:

1. "I know how God views it." That's quite an assertion, some might even say arrogance. I don't know if I could find it in me to assert that confidently that I know God's viewpoint on an issue. Assuming He exists, he is a higher power that surpasses my understanding.
2. "I understand you don't know these things". It is not usually a good idea to make assumptions about other people's understanding - you don't know me well enough. For all you know at this point I could agree with you on every issue.
3. "They all serve the same master" might be felt by some to contradict some of your earlier statements - enemy religions and so on.

I'm not looking for an argument on these points, merely to highlight them to you as places where you are bringing argument upon yourself.

This thread is a perfect illustration of what happens when people try to hold 'dialogue' through picking at the scabs of festering disagreements. I hope that throughout the inter-faith dialogues which prompted this discussion the participants will be capable of focusing on mutually beneficial outcomes, rather than validating their own sense of being right.

I was born again and baptised in the holy spirit/fire.

Your way is just one, there are many christians who say theirs is the only way. I thought the same too. My christian fellowship said that only true christians were born again in the cleansing fire of the holy spirit.

Luckily I realised that they were just another sect and left.

Jimbob, when he says they all serve the same master, he means his version of satan. Unless you are of the only true christian sect that he is in, then you serve satan.

Which is funny because satan is a horned god like Pan and Cernunnos, Herne etc. There are horned gods in every countries mythology. They represent nature/birth/death and of course sex and fertility which is why the church demonised them.

satan is named for the roman festival of saturnalia, a festival of fun and celebration.

<>



Nope - my reactions are totally spontaneous depending on what sort of nasty rubbish you come out with. I do not misinterpret you. And I think you do a good enough job yourself blackening the name of Christ and His people.

<>

Ah, but you are not simply engaging the questions yourself. I'm not attacking *you* Justin, just some of the very offensive things you say.


az

Justin, apologies for not answering your original question. I think that any inter-faith dialogue is a good thing, since this is the only way for the faiths to realise that none of them have a monopoly on the truth.

My post didn't seem to rely on God using my interpretation of what is right. I constructed an argument based on the fact that it is possible for a person to live a life in which they commit no sins in the eyes of God, except for that of not being Christian. I never claimed to be able to dictate what was right. I then said that it was strange that a compassionate God would punish someone purely for not attempting to glorify Him, especially when (I think, but don't worry, I'm sure I heard someone say they've glanced at the Bible or something, so I'm sure they could correct me) that humility is a virtue in Christianity (not that you'd guess this).If God gives people no choice ('they are slaves' etc.) then the ensuing punishment is even stranger.
I don't understand your point: in my condition I cannot worship God acceptably to Him because I do not yet worship God acceptably to Him? This was the only way I could interpret that. Catch-22, no?

And yes, I do take after my name, hence I took that nickname.

sorry,

none of them HAS a monopoly ...

Why can't I type today?

An intriguing thread.....Juxtaposing Christianity, Islam and Hinduism all together. This despite the fact that the UK is primarily a Secular society, if the proportion of non-practising people of all faiths is taken into consideration. Around 70% of the UK population, when pressed on their religion state, claimed to be Christian. If no preference was given then the assumption is C of E.
(http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=395)
Personally, I was never baptised, I have read the Bible, Mein Kampf, studied Communism and Buddhism, have a weak concept of Islam and Judaism, and ultimately I find they are similar and different in equal quantities. The Bible is a good book, written after the event, so not acceptable as evidence, although it was a good reference book for polite society at the time of writing. The Torah and Quran were no doubt equally good in their day.
Unfortunately we are now in the C21 not C7, and mankind is largely free from the yoke, unlike then, and Society has changed, as have living conditions. Pork is now edible in most of the modern world, so it's condemnation is no longer necessary. The destruction of fishing stocks means there should be a moratorium on 'Fish on Sundays.' The act of Circumcision (Male or Female) is an abuse both of the Child and of Human Rights. Need I go on?
I do not believe in a specific Entity, neither do I disbelieve, although I am heading nearer to that ideal the older I get. I am also becoming more of an anti-humanist as more people Proselytize, and tell me where I am headed. Hey, you can't all be right, and not one of you has convinced me in 44 years.
Maybe this will expand your minds.....
http://www.freethinker.co.uk

I'll return later.

Jimbob,

I would not say I was 'playing a game' exactly. The things that I deal in are deadly serious. I feel more sorry for the poor folks that post here than anything else.

Being open to constant attacks is par for the course for any (real) Christian.

To answer your points though, it is the privilege of all Christians to KNOW God, that is what Christ gave His life on a Cross for. And you cannot be an adequate minister unless you do know what He wants, means, and desires. So to know God's viewpoint on the topic of this thread is as basic to a Christian as breathing is to you.

My point about you not understanding is simply that you have never been born again, and you do not know the Lord Jesus personally. Therefore you have no access to the things that Christians have, by His grace, and could not know. I was not slighting your character, only stating what is true for all unsaved folks.

As for point 3, I am sure some will feel that way but Almighty God says that there are two camps only, with one master each. All the real Christians, about 0.5% of the British people, serve one master, and everyone else serves the other one, by default. I am not suggesting that they do so wittingly. I was speaking about all those religious folks, whether of pseudo-Christian religion, or any other, or none at all, who serve the opposite camp to God's people.

Don't worry, Jimbob, unless and until I ceased from the one and only true faith and returned to their camp they will never accept what they are told, bar the odd one that God is speaking to. I don't expect them to be anything other than how they are, they cannot help it.

Justin

Kaz,

It sounds to me as if you have had some ghastly spurious 'conversion' and church life, which you could easily walk out of. There are very many like you around. However, you have never met the Lord Jesus spiritually, and you have never heard Him speak to you directly, I can tell you that much. You have my total sympathy, and I sincerely hope that no lasting hurt or damage was inflicted on you.

It is true that new birth by baptism in the Spirit is the only salvation of God. However there are umpteen spurious 'salvations' around in very many churches which are into all sorts of things that they have no business to be. But there we are........

I have never said that 'my way is the only way'. I have always stated that salvation is found in Christ Jesus, HIMSELF, alone. There are people in all sorts of churches who have the right thing, and many others who do not.

J.

Sarkie,

Well you stand against Almighty God then, as you defy Him when He says, "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God." You spit on the Cross of Christ and tell God that it was not necessary for everyone as they can live a sinless life in the eyes of God without being born again, when God says the exact opposite. And you charge Him with unrighteousness, when He says, "All unrighteousness is sin." There is a rule in God; no holiness, no Heaven. If you don't find Christ you do not stand a chance at being made holy. You certainly cannot do it yourself, by application to religion or otherwise.

God does not punish anything but SIN. The gospel of Jesus Christ sets people free from SIN, not load a lot of obligation on them. Almighty God has arranged things so that the Truth of God in Christ is preached to the whole world. However, all human beings are slaves to sin until they are saved from its power through new birth.

It is not a 'Catch 22', no. All human beings are born in sin, and cut off from God. That is why they do not know Him. Many assume He is not there because of that, and the fact that they have only wretched intellect to work with. It is not possible for an unsaved person to worship God as they are 'dead in trespasses and sins'. That is their spirit is dead, and out of contact with God. But God has ordained that 'they that worship Him MUST worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.' God is a spirit, and only spiritual worship is acceptable to Him.

But to all who comes to Him He gives new life, and for the first time they know that they have a spirit, which is brought to life when they are saved from the power of sin.

Justin

Mad Fiddler,

You are partly right. Until God speak to you you will never 'see it'. And to you all religions are the same. You also make the mistake of thinking that Christians have a book derived religion,and it is just their book against other books. That is not true. However, only God can convince you.

J.

Bring on the ChrisLam! Together, they shall rule the earth!

I was just going to leave it on a humourous note, but I noticed that, as per usual, 30 posts in the conversation turned on it's heel and went back to attacking Justin for his beliefs. Whatever happened to the alleged hootoo "acceptance of all" spirit? Justin asked a question, and wanted an answer, not to be attacked for his honest, and in my eyes, correct view of Christianity. I may not subscribe to his religion, but I have a hell of a lot more respect for him than I do most people. He knows his stuff, and he doesn't back down on issues. I was hoping and waiting for him to step out from beyond his personal space, but I thought he would be treated with a little more respect than he's receiving right now.

Meant to read :

"30 posts into the thread the conversation turned on it's heel..." etc etc

Saturnine,

Don't worry about it, but thanks anyway. I did not, and do not, expect anything else. I am used to it too.

What would you say in answer to the questions I posted in the first post on this thread?

Justin

That long?

It's an impressive que alright.