h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: Handy French Phrases - A761645
Author: Existential Elevator - Ich Bin Kunst [OFFICIALLY! see my U-space] -the original blast from the past- visit the Temple @ A802333 - U195643

any help would be much appreciated!

Hi EE,

You must have seen my comments in PR, and I still don't think it's very sensible to have someone with so little grasp of the ins and outs of the French language to produce a phrase-book.

And notwithstanding the errors on the French text, I find your choice of 'handy phrases' at best bizarre and at worst totally unsuitable and rather offensive.

Sorry to be harsh, but try to see where I'm coming from.

So, with that in mind, compare and contrast: A798573 - Spiff's Handy French Phrases.

This may look like 'competition' and trying to 'beat' you by getting 'my' entry in instead of yours. I see it more as a bid to 'protect' the EG from being debased by a dodgy French language entry.

And yes, I will have no choice but to accept criticism of climbing up on my high horse, but I actually *like* the French language (and culture), speak it every day with French people as my 'main' language, and thus it gets my hackles up when it is 'abused' in this way.

Having said all that, I *do* think you went into this with the intention of producing something positive for the guide. I will happily include you as a researcher on 'my' entry (although I have not so far used any of your material, including the gml), and I would really like to put 'my' version into the CWW instead of yours, as the basis for a wider collaboration.

Whaddaya say? Fight or unite?

cya
spiff

Unite.

I do have a slight qualm with you being so harsh though: This was one of my first guide entries, that I only did because H2G2 has virtually every other language phrasebook apart from French, which I thought was strange, so I did one of my own. I love the French language too.

What do you want me to do<?>

cool.

Firstly, I'd like to say that it is great that you wanted to have fun with French in the first place. I didn't want to put you off that at all. I don't want to be a kill-joy anyway, and in particular I like languages too, and wouldn't want to discourage you.

I'd love to collaborate on this entry.

I have to go out now, so perhaps I could suggest you compare and contrast my version with yours, and see what you think.

One of my main probs with your initial efforts was that they were largely nonsensical or abusive.

As you can see, my proposals are a bit different. Basically I took the Japanese phrase entry and rejigged it.

If you are ok to work with it, you're welcome to copy and paste it into your entry and we can use that as a basis for your collab entry, stick me down on yours as a contributor and wait for the suggestions to roll in.

If you feel that some of your stuff needs to be kept, fine. keep it in the new version and we can debate the pros and cons.

For instance, I think a section (towards the end) on slang and swearing would be a great idea. I'll have more to say on that later.

If you don't want to go my way, you're always free to do whatever you wish, naturally.

But personally I hope we can get it together and come up with a really good guide entry.


whatever you decide
all the best with this and future writings and have fun on h2g2
spiff

I suppose 'c'est loin?' - is it far? would be okay?

Caper Plip

Oh dear, I've got people posting ishly! It's me that should be worried!

Yes, 'C'est loin?' is fair enough. There are issues, though.

'Est-ce loin?' is clearly a question, no matter what the intonation, whereas "c'est loin?" must go up at the end in order to be understood as a question.

A minor quibble, you may say. But personal experience has taught me that I and many other non-native speakers can believe we have asked a question, whilst the French interlocutor believes I have made a statement. It can cause confusion, believe me.

For someone uncertain enough to use a phrase-book, I think it is better to err on the side of caution, 9 times out of ten.

I am open to debate, though.

Oh god, now *nobody* is gonna post!

Please believe that I really am open to all suggestions from all comers. After years speaking French as a foreign language, a different perspective can often be extremely valuable when trying to do something like this for pre-beginnners.

cya
spiff

Okay, how about 'Est-ce qu'il y a ... ....... près d'ici?'

Is/Are there ... ....... near here?

Well, Looking at the current version of the article, it seems quite amusing - especially the "I'm washing my hair" and "I'm pregnant" points.

Perhaps a section regarding work? "I'm in a meeting", "I'm power-napping" etc etc?

Cheers

Baffled Greg

Will I get credit for Je suis creve?

You must absolutely include a detailed explanation of the verb "Baiser" with all of its uses and connotations so I don't get slapped again. Thanks.

IV, je suis excite'

Hi all,

No feedback from the author recently.

hmm, Greg, I'm not sure about your comments. Did you note that the 'pregnant' thing was totally wrong? And praise for it's amusement value? Maybe someone could do an entry called 'Amusing French Phrases' - then I could understand wanting to include 'Je me lave les cheveux.'

Dr Monty, you want credit, eh?

and El Greco: 'baiser' and the dangers thereof... yes, a dodgy word. Shirley better left out of a list of 'handy' phrases, non?

It's interesting, because it could be said to be equivalent to 'kiss' in English, and also to 'f**k'! I assume that's what got you into trouble.

The difference between 'Je te baise.' and 'Je te baise la main.' is a matter of light-years! There was a 'shock' film recently in France entitled 'Baise-moi'... I don't think it meant 'Kiss me'!

spiff
*looking forward to this message coming back from moderation*

Looks like you explained it rather too well!

I knew that would happen!

I should've put in a post first that said, 'Warning - the next posting is about to be moderated! Please stand clear!'

The envelopes are done. i jsut have to print the letters and stuff them all.

Whoops! wrong input box!

I meant to say

"yet i am still in danger of being slapped. could you explain again?"

ok, the word in question has two meanings.

One is equivalent to the Eng 'to kiss'. And by extension there is a noun, 'le baiser' - 'the kiss'.

The other meaning is closer to the Eng 'eff' word, as a verb. not, I don't think, as a noun.

sorry if that sounds condescendingly simple (it looks it from here, ) but you understand I am walking on zee egg-shells vis-à-vis moderation.

*waves and smiles to friendly moderator *


A+
Speef

Right, I was aware of the two meanings. But I dont understand the distinction between the two. If i were to say "may I kiss you?" in french, it may be taken in another way, n'est-ce pas?

yup.

Your only rallying point is context, really.

In 'polite company', no-one would probably even acknowledge the 'vulgar' sense.

Somewhere in between there's a kind of middle ground where you can joke with the 'double-entendre'. That's where most people probly fit.

And then, some people would probly never dream of using it in the 'kiss' sense. It is a rather 'posh' kinduva word in the 'polite' sense; perhaps most often associated with the kiss on the hand.

A good alternative, to avoid the confusion, is to use 'faire un bisou', which is nice and filth-free.

Give us a kiss
spiff