h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Kiwi, Pom (Brit), Limey, Ocker etc are terms of endearment.

The English applied the term Yankee to Dutch pirates, and later still Dutch settlers in New York applied it to English settlers in Connecticut, who were known for their piratical trading practices. During the French and Indian War the British general James Wolfe took to referring derisively to the native New Englanders in his army as Yankees, and the term was widely popularized during the Revolutionary War by the song "Yankee Doodle." By the war's end the colonists had perversely adopted the term as their own. Southerners used Yankee pejoratively to describe Northerners during the Civil War, but found themselves, along with all other Americans, called thus by the English during world wars I and II.

He-he...LOOny....you might want to scrape that off your shoe. It appears you've stepped in a big pile of "it"!LOL

In the first place, pay no attention to US writers and their assesment of culture here. This has been a running joke since the Revolutionary War......it only gets moderated slightly from decade to decade(sometime let me explain to you the difference between "Yankee", Da*n Yankee" and G*d Da*n Yankee").

Please, folks of "color" bear with me as I say this....the term "Yankee" can be used by us, to each other, without animosity. It cannot be used by anyone outside the US without being considered a MAJOR insult. Much the same here with the term "n****r"......a black man can call another black man a "n****r" without any thought of any repercussions....but god help us all if a white man uses the same term. Likewise, "Yankee" is almost a term of endearment amoung us....but a mainline insult from anyone from another country.

Furthermore, I tend to agree with Listener......if our educational system stinks so badly, why does everyone keep sending there kids here for college? Educate them yourselves, if we're that bad....leave room for my kids on campus! I'm nearing overload on tired of hearing that crap.

And..shall I go on?...I guess I shall.

We here in the US are "brain dead" when it comes to the rest of the world. We don't know how to behave ourselves. Last time I checked we had done a fair job....of mistakes and real help. We're human, too, you know. Aren't you guys in NZ human? Is your government perfect? If it is, let me know...I've never met a perfect entity before!

We have power...sometimes I think we have too much, but then I think about it...and maybe we don't. Maybe we have just enough to keep the world from going over the "edge of insanity". *Shall we all worship the god of bin Laden...by FORCE?*.

*sulks off humming George M. Cohens' "Yankee Doodle Dandy"*

NM

Writers only write what people view. If you didn't watch it, we wouldn't write it/sell it in your country. You probably wouldn't watch a sitcom showing Americans to be smarter than you? The only English sitcoms on American TV that I know of are "are you being served" and "keeping up appearances" according to those, English store clerks are either gay(their chose, I am not insulting gays or store clerks here) or male chauvinist pigs, and housewife’s are either stuck up prigs, or married to "embarrassments."
An intelligent TV viewer will know that they are watching only what the networks could get people to watch….

The networks come up with ideas for television shows based upon demographics - basically, they're trying to guess what we want to see. So we have shows like Friends and Everybody Loves Raymond that seem to be geared to the younger, upwardly mobile generation - a perfect target audience for cell phones and Pampers. Fortunately, it balances out with shows like Dark Angel, The Simpsons, Family Guy, and Star Trek.

As for the educational system: people have been criticizing our system for a long time, and because of that criticism, the government has forced the schools to use standardized tests - lots and lots of them. I think that they're going the wrong way about it. Teachers should be paid lots more, and the standards for becoming a teacher should be higher. Nobody really wants to be a teacher any more, because the pay is so terrible, and then you have to deal with the students!

British sitcoms: I'm sorry, but I don't find them funny. In fact, the only British comedy I find amusing is Monty Python's Flying Circus, and the occasional Black Adder episode. Fawlty Towers? Can't watch it. Keeping Up Appearances? Can't force myself to watch it. Most British humor seems to be of the 'I Love Lucy' vein - the protagonist embarrasses her/himself to the point of absurdity. I don't know why other people seem to find it so funny - I'm just embarrased for the protagonist!

>>Yank is what happens when the lights go out<<

thought that one started with a "w"?

>>....the term "Yankee" can be used by us, to each other, without animosity. It cannot be used by anyone outside the US without being considered a MAJOR insult<<

yes, and sometimes it is meant as an insult but, just so you know, I've mostly used it just as a substitute, informal word for American. It is interesting that somewhere on H2G2 in the past, (forgive my memory loss) that an American once stated that "Aussie" was a derogatory term because it was patronising. This was quite a shock, as I had never considered that Americans would use the term in a manner that was anything but affectionate. Therefore, any terms we use are all just, you know, substitutes for the country. Kiwi and Kiwiland, Pommie and pommieland, yankee and yankeeland, aussie and aussieland, are all, just little affectionate terms. No real harm meant by them.


>>all had to leave NZ to either get higher education or achieve their greatness.<<

to achieve their greatness... in a word? Money. Money money money. It's really not easy when your own government doesn't spend enough on scientific research, and your country's private companies are not a wealthy as America's.

>>>if our educational system stinks so badly, why does everyone keep sending there kids here for college? Educate them yourselves, if we're that bad....leave room for my kids on campus!<<<

for a cultural change. Why do American students come to Australia? They're definately here at my university. For the experience.

>>>Aren't you guys in NZ human? Is your government perfect?<<<

some people argue that they come pretty close to both of those

>>>British sitcoms: I'm sorry, but I don't find them funny<<<

_some_ people, might, say, that ah, American humour is a bit more contrived, or dependent on carefully placed, situations. They might even consider it to be a little more obvious. But each country to our own humour

But you like some british humour, Monty Python, presumably Douglas Adams, etc, just as other people from other countries will like some American humour. Just 'cause the Webber Show sucks, doesn't mean all American humour sucks, same with British humour.

A common misconception among us Brits is that the Americans don't understand irony. An even more common conceit is that we are the world's foremost exponents of this brand of humour. However, I think that the American sitcoms that do best 'over here' are those that are well larded with the stuff, such as Frasier, The Simpsons, Malcolm in the Middle etc.

They obviously appeal to some national trait, but they succeed mainly because they are (a) well produced, (b) funny and (c) are free of stereotypes and show that Americans have to undergo the same trials of life that we all do. We don't produce this kind of comedy well enough for Americans to appreciate it. So we have come to rely to a large extent upon one kind of comedy, which we do very well: the 'absurdist' genre. I'd recommend that anybody who likes Monty Python gets their hands on a copy of The League of Gentlemen, which is a demented look at a godforsaken Northern English town. Not so much a sitcom as a forensic dissection of the conseqeunces of inbreeding.

It's an interesting measure of the "depth" of this forum that when I mentioned "television shows" everybody automatically assumed I was thinking about comedy. I wasn't - I was thinking of US soap operas and mini-series which purport to show "realism"...


On the subject of "Are you being served?", "Keeping up Appearances" etc., I *LOATHE* any form of comedy-through-embarrasment. Any show featuring "Frank Spencer"-like characters, or pretty much any of Steve Coogan's creations is my cue to turn over or turn off.


Sorry, I had to get that off my chest - I got the feeling that people were implying that I support *that* sort of television...

Insults are only where they're meant.
In addition to those superb American comedies, the USA has given us the blessed Bill Bryson... who realises that only participant observation gives you the right to judge a country.

Antipodean,

Well, yes, I guess it could be three words. Starting with a "yank" followed by a "my" then you get to finish the rest.

As far as the rest of this goes,


I myself still think that Yank is a crappy term. Particularly when you go through the history and say that it all started with Dutch Pirates. Now why in the world would that irritate me?

But that is fine I suppose, if the group here seems to think it is ok for New Zealanders to be called Kiwi after a fuzzy green fruit and Americans to be called by the colloqialism for jerking off then I suppose that is fine. Myself, I think it is kind of lame for seemingly intelligent people to even be having this kind of discussion. I wouldn't call a black guy a "n****r", even if I am Southern, and I damn sure wouldn't call a English guy a Brit or a Pom ( I don't even know what the hell a pom is ).

(aside) unless of course they started p**s**g me off! Then it is open season. I'm a hawk I know....but I'd still use words I knew.

As far as the t.v. stuff. My point was and still is, if you judge a country by the t.v. that they sell to you than you are dumber than you write. I can't think of anyone on t.v. that is like me. Even Raymond says things to his wife that I would only think (because I don't get a commercial break people, and she'll still be mad the next day).

And to education. Man that is no joke about the standardized tests. I consider myself of average intelligence. Those tests always make me look stupid. You know, when in school I would pray for essay tests, because I knew if I could just talk about the answer I could then day exactly what I meant and even explain why I think so. A B C choices really irritate me. I think we are screwing ourselves by forming our educational system to standardized forms. No I don't think that we should form every test to form every students needs. I think we should promote more thinking outside the box type tests where a student has to "think" and not guess. Teach our children to think that way. Ingenuity is one of things we Americans are the most proud of. We should go back to that.

And much to (some of you at least) your undying horror, I made it 3 yrs into a degree in education, right up until my "paying the bills job" wound up paying more than my educational goal would have ever wet dreamed of doing. So I support the idea of wanting to pay teachers more. I don't even care if it comes out of my taxes. Better that than paying for the police to pull me over to the side of the road because I "looked" like I was driving fast when they should be out busting real criminals. I would never leave my job to become a teacher with the wages we pay those people. Pay little, expect little quality. Sure there are a few good ones, but they should all be Peerless.

geez what a rant I've been on.

peet,
You are under the impression that US Soap Operas imply realism? hehe haha hoho.... oh I apologise I was laughing at you not with you.

In light of the USA's fanatical promotion of piratical trading practices (globalisation is good as long as US farmers retain their subsidies) it would appear that the use of the term Yankee at this time is appropriate, indeed trendy.

Kiwifruit were originally known as Chinese gooseberries. In the 70s a group of bright NZ orchardists renamed them. They then launched a brilliantly successful world-wide marketing blitz.

The Kiwi is a unique New Zealand bird. The birds don't seem to mind sharing their name with the humans they quite happily share their islands with.

Does H2G2 have an award for "Topic Drift"?....I think this one qualifies as a contender!LOL

Let me clarify a bit....the term "Yank" or "Yankee" was a term of endearment in the era of WWII...after our debacles in Korea and Vietnam, the mood changed. My mind still holds clearly the banners that were held up to the news cameras during the '60's and '70's across Europe..."Yankee, Go Home".

Thats' where the meaning changed.

Me, I'm from the southern US...around here its' not a compliment....it has an internal meaning here......I actually don't mind it from friends overseas.

I use the term "Aussie" as an endearment. I find Australia a most interesting nation and culture(yes, that includes "The Croc Hunter"....every nation has its' own nuts!).

I didn't realise it was a slur. If it would be best, I shall refrain from using the term(this from a most NON "P.C" person. You guys from "down under" let me know.)

By the way...the reference to "Kiwi" is a BIRD, not a fruit!(Pull out a history book...it'll tell you who killed them off!)

"Brit-Coms"? Can I say "Red Dwarf".? That show is just ....well...the best. "Black Adder"? Oh, MY!!! This guy is a "tart", ain't he!LOL

Actually, in my opinion, the best comedy on the BBC is "Changing Rooms" and "Ground Force".(Followed closely by "Antiques Roadshow")

NM

Hmmm...imagine that. LOOny, you and I posted too close!

eerrrmmm...maybe my sources are incorect(you're there, so you should know)....I thought the Kiwi was extinct!?

I suppose, I must be thinking of the Do-Do....sorry!

NM

Loony

Could you expand on the fanatic protection policies of the US towards it farmers becasue I sure don't see it. US small farmers are going out of business faster than ever. They are being replaced by large multinational agribusinesses that have interests in US, Canada and Brazil. What we see are protectionist policies from Japan, Europe, etc toward their farmers.

PS The only farm industry that has protectionist policies in place is the dairy industry but they even have protectionist policies from one US state to the other. It makes no sense and it will eventually go away.

NM, you were probably thinking of the moa, a flightless bird that was quite a bit larger than the ostrich.

As NZ had no mammals (apart from a couple of bats) the first settlers [Maori] hunted many birds into extinction. Thankfully the Kiwi survives to this day.

Listener, earlier this year the United States slapped punitive tariffs on New Zealand and Australian lamb. The ANZACs (another term of endearment ) took the protectionist Yanks to the WTO and won.

Thank you, LOOny....for the clarification.

If I'm not mistaken, the Do-Do was done the same way in the American islands.

By the way, Kiwi, here in the "States" is a brand of shoe polish....compleate with a pic!

Listener...you're right....thats' all I'll say, for the moment.....my speghetti sauce is burning!!!!!!

NM

OK.....sauce is saved!

"Family farms" in the US are dead.(Other than dairy....old WWII law. No one has had the courage to repeal it, yet.)

Its' a shame, but, as you guys outside the US are so fond of reminding us, this is a "Capitalist game".

This is the future of agriculture in the US...its' sad but expected.

Protectionism in the US? Ask the steelworkers here in Birmingham, Alabama about that.....they'll most likely throw something at you!

NM

Loony

It pains me to say this (it really pisses me off that you force me to defend polices of the US) but you are right. I didn't know the trade policies about lamb. We really don't have a lamb industry in the areas where I live so I was not aware that protectionist polices are in place. Perhaps there are other areas that I am not aware of as well. Perhaps you could enlighten me?