h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Muzaak - what is this formula? I've heard about it, but I'm not clear on what it is. Is it to do with values being assigned to it's letters etc.?

BTW: I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's a proof of divinity...

- Jordan

'Thanks, but that's not "respect".'

I think it is. I mean, if you told me that you understood that without my glasses I find it hard to see - and, so, you wouldn't expect me to be a great pilot - I would accept that as quite respectful.

And he's not saying that's why he respects you - he simply stated what he saw to be fact, demonstrating that he appreciates that this is the situation, in his eyes.

- Jordan

well, that is because you have a recognisable physical deficiency. It is a verifiable fact, also, whereas this is his opinion.
If he thinks my beliefs are the result of some innate deficiency, rather than a long-thought-out choice, that denigrates both them and me. For instance, I can say that I respect someone's beliefs and they seem to suit them very well, however they are not for me. I am not labelling them or their ideas fundamentally flawed in some way.
It reminds me of 'I don't agree with them, but you can't expect them to think reasonably because they're foreign.'

Adib
"Plus your saying that America is going to win a war against Iraq is nothing as its only next month when they start bombing and we know that Iraq has no chance of winning."

That is my point

I notice that you do not say the same thing about China.
As I said we don't 'see' what we don't want to see and don't address it.

Adib
"Meaning they will never see the truth. "

why in all the universe are some allowed to 'see the truth' and why are those who God allows to be blind to it for all eternity?
Is God not an equal opportunity creator?

Jordon in brief in the Quran there is a Sura that in it contains a ayaat that says above it is 19.
I have written a entry on it but you may only find it on my page as its not edited....yet.

To start with the word God (allah in Arabic) appears 2698 times which is 19 x 142. The total sum of the ayaats numbers which have the word god in is 118123 which is also 19 x 6217. That already is a bit much for some one who could not read or right to work out yet alone work out where to put it all in the Quran and remember it all over the 14 or so years it took for the Quran to be revealed.
Anyway continuing onwards so to speak.

the first verse (1:1, 2:1 etc) known as the Basmalah consists of 19 letters not counting repeats.
The Quran consists of 114 sura's which is 19 x 6
The total number of verses in the Quran is 6346 or 19 x 334. Also note that 6 + 3 + 4 + 6 = 19
The Basmalah appears 114 yimes in the Quran as well 19 x 6 (Note that one sura does not have a Basmalah but it is repeated in another Sura.
From that missing Basalah in sura 6 to the repeated one in sura 27 there is 19 sura's.
The total of the sura nubers from 6 to 27 (6+7+8....25+26+27) is 342 or 19 x 18.
342 is also the nuber of words between the two repeated basmalahs is sura 27.
The first revelation (96:1-5) consists of 19 words.
These 19 words consist of 76 letters 19 x 4.
Sura 96, first in the chronological sequence is made up of 19 verses.
Sura 96 is made up from 304 arabic letters. 19 x 16 = 304
Sura 110 the last sura revealed consistes of 19 words.
The first verse of the last sura to be revealed is made up of 19 letters.
the Quran mentions 30 different numbers: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,19,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,99,100,200,300,1000,2000,3000,5000,50000 and 100000 the sum of these is 162146 which is 19 x 8534. I wont put any more as I have written a whole entry on it so go and read it. It is called Islam and the mathmaitcal code.

Adib

Hass what happens is we have free choice to choice. If you choice to not belief then God will make support that and not make you believe as forced worship is pointless and meaningless. You have the choice to believe if you wished but for some they will refuse every thing short of God appering and saying 'Hi I'm God' so in essence God allows those who do not wish to belief to blind them selves. People say things like but why does he let them and stuff like that but if he made us believe we would not have free choice and would we. You don't believe because you make it for your self impossible to believe the same way I make it for my self so I can believe.

Adib

Adib
I'm making my way slowly through your links
Thank you for adding them

what are you referring to China about your profecy was that America will win the war against Iraq. What did you say about China?

Adib

what are you referring to China about your profecy was that America will win the war against Iraq. What did you say about China?

Adib

I'm just interpreting Muzaak as best I can, so these might not actually be his opinions, but in his absence I shall try to defend him...

'It is a verifiable fact, also, whereas this is his opinion.'

It's his belief. He is, so far as I can see, certain that it's true, which is rather different from opinion.

'If he thinks my beliefs are the result of some innate deficiency, rather than a long-thought-out choice, that denigrates both them and me.'

Excellent point taken. But I don't think that's what he thinks. He just says that he has no right to judge you by his standards because you might not be receptive to the same things that he is. And he will probably agree with you that your beliefs are the result of careful reflection - he didn't say you were ignorant, hasty or stupid, by any means! I suspect he fully respects your intelligence and wisdom. He simply doesn't /agree/, and he's fit you into his beliefs admirably - by saying that, since (it appears) his conversion to Islam was partly spiritual, that you haven't received the same guidance and so couldn't have made the same choices as him.

And - he didn't say it was an innate characteristic. He said you were blind. Well, so is everyone when there isn't any light. And a wax buid-up can affect anyone's ears. Local anaesthetic will numb anyone you care to choose. He also didn't deny that it could happen to him too.

It doesn't really remind me of that - but it reminds me of a study into image perception. People from certain African tribes saw pictures very differently from those in England - for example, depth cues were not analysed. The immediate implication everyone saw was that, because they couldn't see depth cues, they were inferior. But then, the same group of children who can't see depth cues can see instantly through optical illusions. So who's the fool now?

Answer: no one. People are different, because of situational, personal, mental, physical (and, conceivably, spiritual) limitations - or abilities. No one's saying you're any worse because of them - or any better, for that matter. Just different.

Note: These do not necessarily reflect Muzaac's views. They're just my swing on things based on what I think he's saying.

- Jordan

ahh just reread what you said. There will be a war in China huh. So when. Give your self a time limit. Still does not make you a profit. The point you over look is that at the time of the prophecy the people prophecised to win looked like they would lose as they where vastly out mached. For instance you prophercy should read:
America will attack Iraq and Iraq will beat America and them move on to distroy China at the same time the English people will win a war against Irish with in a ten year period. That is basiclly what the prophecy sounded like when revealed. Far fetched and no chance in hell of those things happening.

Adib

The only problem i have with the qur'an or the bible is the fact that they both draw invisivble little lines that aren't blatantly out there, but you can sense it when you talk to people of those faiths. i'm on this side therefore i have a better position in life than you, ergo i'm on a winning side. 'My faith makes me a better person than you'....i'm enlightened and you aren't therefore it is my DUTY to teach and educate you....Please see "Social Darwinism." it may not be the case Muzaak or you simply may not be st8ing your opinions clearly, but your stance on your religion comes across as Muslims being on a higher "pedestal" than others....be careful! those very "innocent" stances may seem innocent, but in reality they are biases and prejudices that lead to ugliness...the very same ugliness that has stemmed from such simple arguments as skin color...and we've all read about how those simple differences get distorted and the S#$% that arises from it! Calling attention to someone elses differences and saying you are tolerant of it takes ownership of the argument...meaning you've put yourself in the drivers seat and appointed yourself judge...whether you intended to or not you have done it and i politely ask you to please be very careful. Islamic religion is very open to all types of people (as it should be)...but what it and christianity should NOT do is draw attention to it.

...As Anthea so eloquently put it...

...you dont nessasaraly need to beleve in god to
beleve that life is the most saceraid thing in the universe

(now THAT is respect!)

peace my brotha's and sista's...

'The only problem I have with [Christians or Muslims] is [that] they both draw invisible little lines that aren't blatantly ["blatantly aren't"?] out there, but you can sense it when you talk to people of those faiths.'

I'm not sure I'm reading this right, but it seems that you're accusing our faiths of distinguishing between people on no tangible basis - an accusation levelled on the basis of something you 'sense' when you talk to one of us.

It may be that I'm misreading you. All I'll say is, don't tar us all with the same brush!

- Jordan

ha ha ha ha. Oh deary me. I have full respect for every one and know I and other Muslims do not hold our selfs above others. Yes we talk about Islam but we all talk about the things that make us who we are in some way or another. Point is in Islam just because your not a Muslim does not mean you do not go to hell and vice versa if you are a muslim. In fact a Muslim has to respect all life including animals. I have many friends who are not Muslim and some are in the socialist party others are sikh etc. There my friends, faith does not make me say I am better then you or any thing. Only God knows that. I do my best to be fair to other people and do not critasize with out being mindfull of my own faults. All my friends respect who I am and I respect them. I have friends who do things that are very bad in Islam and yes I think that is wrong and they know how I feel about it but I do not preach on them about it. They know my stance and I know there's. we all respect each other. Thats the way things are ment to be. Islam does not allow racism or sexism of any kind. The greatist example of people from all over the world coming together in unity is Hajj.
Yes there are differences between people but these differences are unique to each person and should be respected and cherised not seen as a enermy.
I do not see my self enlightened that is stupid thinking. I know lots about Islam does that make me better than some man who spends on the poor and does good work but does not pray? Who am I to say. For every thing I learn about Islam there are others out there who know more about other things than me. Surely the enlighted is God as only he knows more than anyone else.
There is no compulsion on religion. All I do is answer peoples questions on Islam and tell people about it. Why? Because very few none Muslims know the true spirit of Islam. An to be fair neither do a lot of Muslims. Islam is a brother hood. Not just between other Muslims but to every one. We where all created by God and what ever path people choice then we should not impied them unless they go to cause havac and oppretion on other people. The essence of Islam is love and compassion. When ever some one is oppressed Muslims are supposed to be there to help, how far things have changed. There is a Hadith that says if you see some thing wrong then change it. If you can not change it your self then change it through talking out about it, if you can not talk out about it then change it with your heart and that is the weakest of faith.
I went on a demonstration yesterday the biggest one in the history of britain. Why? Is it because Muslims are going to be bombed? that may be part of the answer. Was it because lives where going to be bombed? Yes that was a big part of it. But why demonstrate, will the goverment listen? Will it change whats going to happen? Would if have mattered if I had stayed at home or not as I am only one person? The answer to these questions are unknown. The future can answer some. But how do I feel. I feel sad yet I also feel strange, a unknown feeling. That is yesterday I was part of two million people who could not physically change what the wrong. I was there with two million people from all walks of live united under one common goal and that is what the brother hood of Islam is about. The fact that some thing wrong is haooening out there to people we may never met yet we are out there for them people. I'm not talking just about Muslims I am referring to all the believers and non believers alike on that demonstration. I was with a bunch of Muslim girls and we where chanting the first calimah if any of you are interested but anyway in that demonstration there was a unity. That was the unity that existed in the old days of Islam in the citys under Islamic rule. The respect for each other was there. Where has that gone. Is it the Muslims fault? Who knows, I do know that these days Muslims deen is not very good. Its missing and needs to be replaced. Will that help to reach a understanding between all walks of life? Maybe it will who knows but who is going to get that deen back? For a Muslim the troubles of this life comes from materistic things. This want of things is a dangers thing and should be held in check. In the old days Muslims where so concerned about these things that they had hardly any property. One calipath worried he had to much belongings and all he owned was a water beaker and a bowl, this was a guy who ruled the Muslim empire and thats all he had when he died. Another person salahuldin was a brave fighter and did much in the way of helping people. He lead the Islamic forces in the crusades and when he died all he had was a gold coin and 11 silver ones. Not even enough to pay for his funeral. Another example is the mayor (you would call him) of a town who actually had hardly any property. One day this man came in to the town and saw him working and asked if he could help with his heavy load. Along the way the villagers said there words of respect in passing him and the visiter was long who are they referring to as the mayor. To which some one replied he is the mayor pointing at the hold man helping carry his load.
These are the things Islam grew on where is that know. When was the last ime we saw people doing these thoughts of things? I have hardly any possestions yet I still have more than those people. The trouble lies that Muslims are being drawn to the materistic ways of this world and where does it get you. When you die what does all you possestions get you?
Sorry to be wanting on, its late and I have had a lot of things on my mind so I thought I would just share a bit with you. You are free to comment on any part of it.

Take care.

Allah hafiz.

Adib

Gordon Bennett, if I see any more pre-mod posting I swear I shall cut all my hair off.

OK, maybe not /quite/ so drastic...

- Jordan

Going back to an earlier point
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/sci_tech/2003/denver_2003/2769875.stm

Hi Hasselfree & Noggin .

One of the many problem we humans have is the need to anthropomorphize (sic) everything we see. It is difficult for the average human to develop their perceptions beyond the boundaries of their own social state.

Nature is not pitiless, she is boundless in her bounty. The 'Nature' of which you speak supports all life on our insignificant little rock. The trees breathe for us, the worms converts the rock and organic detritus into soil, the plants grow fruitful, the animals mutliply and we live on top of it all.

The fact that nature doesn't have the same short-term and short-sighted view as the majority of us 'evolved' hominids is our problem, not hers. It is we who are pitiless for we have the capacity for pity and generally do not use it. We have capacity for mercy and we seldom employ it. We can see that we are slowly killing ourselves and maybe every other living thing on the planet, but we don't care, only our little, pathetic lives are important.

Speak not to me of pity when 30% of the world's hardwoods have been rendered down into toothpicks and disposable chopsticks in the last 20 years alone.

Blessings,
Matholwch the Tree Hugger /|\.

Hi Europeep .

Yes, the Fey do still exist. However, how we perceive the spirits of the land changes with each generation.

To many of my path they are spirits with whom we interact both in the dream state, the otherworld, and in the older places within our own realm. We generally don't perceive them as some sort of Victorian fantasy (little kids with butterfly wings) but rather as beings of great wisdom and a perception that spans ages.

Blessings,
Matholwch - off with the faeries again /|\.

A excellant point. An that is one of the main problems in the world if the not main one.

Adib