h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

htat idea makes sence all images get destorted through time

The Noble Qur'an An-Nur 24:2-9

2. The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allâh, if you believe in Allâh and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment. (This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime but if married persons commit it, the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allâh's Law).

I presume the part in perencacis is added commentry. Plus you have actually only qouted (badly) ayaat (verse) 2 not verses 2 - 9. any way this is what it actually says in An-nur (the light) 24 2-9. I will add explanative notes between the verses for you to understand there meaning better.

(2)As for the adulteress and the adulterer - flog each of them with a hundred stripes, and let not compassion with them keep you from [carrying out] this law of God, if you [truly] believe in God and the last day; and let a group of the believers witness their chastiment.

The term 'zina' signifies voluntry sexual intercourse between a man and a woman not married to one another, irrespective to rether they are are both or one of them married to some one else. Meaning it does not - in contrast to the Westerns opinion - differenciate between the concepts of adultery ( sexual inter course between a married person with some one they are not married to) and fornication (sexual intercousre between to unmarried persons). For the sake of simplicity it is rendered as Adultery and throughout as Adulterer or Adulteress in most franslations.

The number of those present for the punishment is not given, thus indicating that while the punishment must be given publicly, it not need be made in to a 'public spectacle'.

(3) [Both are equally quilty:] the adulterer couples with none other than an adulteress that is, a woman who accords [to her own lust] a place side by side with God; and with the adulteress couples none none other than a adulterer - that is a man who accords [to his own lust] a place side by side with God: and this is forbidden unto the believers.

The Key thing her is that the verse is stressing that both parties are equally guilty in as much as they commit their sin consciously - implying that neither of them can excuse them selfs on the grounds of having been merely 'seduced'. This is saying that if two people have willing sex on there own accord full knowing what they are doing then they should only marry other unchaste women or men. But if they did it in a act of lust and could not refrain and then pray for forgivness then it is permisable to marry a believer.

(4) And as for the those who accuse chaste women [of adultery], and then are unable to produce four witnesses [in support of his accusation], flog them with eighty stripes; and ever after refuse to accept from them there testimony - since it is they, that are trulely depraved! - excempting [from this interdict] only those who afterwards repent and make amends: For, behold, God is much forgiving, a dispenser of grace.

This also applies to the case where a woman accuses a man of the same thing and unable to provide proper witnesses. The seventy of the punishment and the need for four witnesse (instead of the usual two in Islmic law and civil suits) is based on the imperitive necesserity of preventing slander and off-hand accusations. The evidence of the witnesses must be direct and not cirumsantiol. Meaning it is not sufficent for them to witness a situation that made it evident that sexual intercourse was taking or had taken place. They must have witnessed the sexual act as such and to prove this to the satisfaction of the judical authority. As it is almost impossible for this to happen what the purpose of this Quranic injunction is to preclude, in practice, all third party accusations relating to illicit sexual intercourse. An to make the proff of Adultery dependant on a voluntry, faith inspired confession of the guilty parties them selves.

(6)And as for those who accuse their own wifes [of Aduletery], but have no witnesses except them selves, let each of these [accusers] call God four times to witness that he is indeed telling the truth, (7)and the fifth time, that gods curse be upon him if he is telling a lie.

This means that each time he calls God to witnesses what he says is true it is as if there was a nother witness. Another thing to mention is that it says husband but the wife can make the accusation as well under the same rules.

(8)But [as for the wife, all] chastiment shall be averted from her by her calling God four times to witnesses that he is indeed telling a lie,
(9) and the fifth [time], that God's curse be upon her if he is telling the truth.

Thus, the husbands accusation is regarded as truth if the woam refuses to take an oath to the contray, and disproved if she solemly sets her word against his. li'an (which means oath of condemnation), leaves the question of guilt legaly undecided, both parties are obsolved pf all the legal consequences otherwise attending on Adultery. The choice left to them is if they shall stay married or not.

So we can see how bad your version is. Let me guess christean site trying to show Islam as being bad or a Quran written by a none Muslim who does not understand it properly?

As for the Hadith I still can't find the Hadith you are talking about. When I find out more I will let you know.

Adib

Except the Qura nad Islam. They are not distorted. It is proven by scholers (none muslim and Muslim alike) that the Quran is the same as it was when first revealed.

Adib

I'm sorry Adib. I just wasn't being accurate enough in my earlier posts. I wonder if you accept the following as a reasonable source: http://qibla.dhs.org/

If you go here: http://qibla.dhs.org/alim_online/bukhari/sb8_42.htm
and read on, you will find many quotes similar to the following: >>And you, O Unais! Go to the wife of this man (and if she confesses), stone her to death." So Unais went in the morning and stoned her to death (after she had confessed).<<

A lot of similar quotes follow on that and the following pages.

That particular quote comes at the end of the first paragraph. The heading is: Sahih Bukhari Hadith, Book 8, Hadith From Number 821

I hope this is adequately cited. Sorry again about the earlier posts.

We've been around the stoning and verse or no verse, this is still, to my view, the inditement of a wrathful god. Lashes, ex communication (of a kind) or stoning to death it's all cruelty with no love in it.
I much prefer the words that say "Let him without sin cast the first stone. " and note that this does not particularly refer to the supposed sin of adultary or pre marital sex.
I like 'judge not lest you be judged also." too
Even though I am not a Christian. I'm still believing in a God that says Love is the answer to all questions. Not beatings, stonings, whippings, burnings, torturings - these are man made rulings.
Only man in the whole of creation is capable of such cruelties to a brother or sister.
Any church that advocates these tortures, is not a church of God in my humble opinion.
If anyone truely believes that God is about punishment for the crimes of using the gift of free will, then let them allow God to do any punishing that is due.

I agree with you completely, Hass. However, I think that is why it is important to point the finger at those who think otherwise - those who accept a faith that requires these horrific 'punishments'. I don't care whether they are Christians, Muslims or what. If they accept that they have to do these things for whatever reason, including the requirements of their god, they are deluded and should think for themselves more.

Actually I was only saying your qoute of the Quran was wrong. An that unless you give me the whole reference of the Hadith I can not find it. Right know you have given it to me I have lookedit up. Yes thouse Hadith are there but alas they are weak hadith and not strong one's plus they go against the Quran's punishment which is the upper limit of 100 lashes. This comes about because some people want to follow the weak hadith which are not supported by the Quran.Though as already stated above the Sura refers to that punishment for both fornication and adultery where as the Hadith is talking about Adultery only and is still wrong as it goes against the Quran. So Muslims should not follow it as it is against the Quran and is a weak hadith and the Prophet never stoned some one himself.
When ever some thing is in question in Islam you use the Quran as guidence and I think it is quite clear that the act of stoning is not Islamic. Just because it has a islamic E mail address does not mean it was written by proper Muslims. There are many cases of zionists writing about Islam under a islamic name.
You can choice to believe me or not but I live with people who know these answers and I have about seven copies of all the Hadith and about twenty different Qurans at my disposle along with books and leaftlets on Islam. I have a blissfull life here.

Adib

Isn't it fair to say, however, that the physical punishments don't matter as it is the afterlife that is *really* important?

OK. After you.

Toxx
Unfortunately, my experience is, that pointing the finger has no effect whatsoever. (see also Justin)
for instance some people have decided to point their finger at Matholwch, because they believe his paganism is evil, just as I believe that cruelty is evil.
nothing can persuade me any different, and therefor I assume nothing will persuade those who see evil where there is none.
As we've discussed, how do we know what is right?
and that is subjective to personal experience.
Religious people who believe in a wrathful God, seem to experience the need to be rewarded or punished for some perceived misdemeanor or preceived 'goodness'.
If I believe in A God that is not wrathful , I also believe that if it is meant to happen that those who feel the need to cower in Gods' 'sight' will be shown, not told, that love is the answer not cruelty.

Guy

This life is important to.
It is important not to be cruel to people. It is important not to inspire or create hatred.
Those who float through life with one eye on the heavens and better things to come are wasting their lives.

Adib
May your books and leaflets keep you in your state of eternal bliss.

Hasslefree
Thank you, I feel better about my relationship with my god after reading this one!
Diversity

Diversity
I understand

You people still don't understand.....the Qur'an the Bible...they are tools by which to judge your /own/ life! NOT to quote and to hold other peoples to its standards!!! If someone doesn't wish to live that way you have no right to tell them how to live! Nor impose your judgement upon them. The ultimate reason people anger us is the fact that we have no control over them, to make them live their lives the way we wish they would...in coherence with our own. Have you ever noticed that a person in front of you driving slower than you is a moron and the person who flies by you in their car is a jerk?!? That stems to reason that there is NO happy medium that we can all enter and get along...too much emotion for us to act as a "civilized" world. Have any of you ever committed adultry???....No?...then i don't want to hear about it unless you have something personal to say and give us all some feedback on what it meant and the implications it has had on your life/lives. You're still quoting 1000+ y/o books and not offering any insight...please try harder...

(i'm back off to la la land)...

>>Meaning that what ever they said he simpally said and upon you. Which I think is great.<<
Yes, I think it's great too, Muzaakboy. I'll give a sort of acompliment, and say it's very Christian, in other words, that's how Christians *should* act!

>>Yep, I'm just an NT hippie at heart. I don't see how there can be any other type of Christian, for that matter... <<
I am with you there, Jordan!

Wurfle;
Good work! I agree, and find that I, too, fall into many of those catagories. Like Ann Landers said, " a church is a hospital for sinners, not a showroom for saints" So, I'll keep trying to do better, and thanks for reminding there are more good authors and prophets on the subject than the big three.
diversity

Hang on Della.
If somebody says I'd wish you'd die and the response is 'and on you' that sounds like the basis of an arguement to me. Or have i got it wrong?

Yes I've committed adultary. Twice
It wasn't a nice experience.
The first time I was in a marriage that I should never have made and was too young to fully understand the implications.
It left me grief stricken, guilty and unhappy.
After committing the 'act' I left the home, because I couldn't bear to tell lies and sneak about.
The second time my husband had already left and was living with someone. Later I married the 'other' man.
Although strictly speaking I was still married to someone else when I formed a new relationship.
In the first instance because I didn't want to get into a slanging match in court, I had to wait three years to get a divorce .
Everyone's reasons are different for such acts. Some are not made lightly in the gay abandonment of lust.