h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

no what is it about

And Hey! How about The Trout of Suspicion?

i dont know that joke

Wurfle, my proof god exists is in the Quran. There is loads of proof in it for some one who is open to the idea of a god. That is all to say on the matter.
Adib

But that is a circular argument, the same used by folk of Justin's calibre who say 'In the Bible, God says the Bible is true' and expect it to be all the proof anyone else needs, because it works for them.
There is proof in the Quran for someone who has *already accepted* the idea of *your* God and *your* religion. Someone who is open to the idea of a God would need corresponding proof from other sources in order to sway them into thinking that one is right.

An there is. The mass of scientific data in it, which a lot of has only been discovered in the last fory or so years and that is made accurate tellings of some future avents. Unlike other books or people who have made predictions the Qurans predictions it has made have so far all come true. PLus its science is accurate with modern science and does not go against any modern ideas apart from evolution which it does not mention.

Thats why the second most high perportion of converts are scientists, the first going to american women.

Adib

you dont nessasaraly need to beleve in god to
beleve that life is the most saceraid thing in the universe

care to give some examples of its predictions?

That kind of proof is not important to *my* beliefs, anyway. It is not going to convince me to convert to Islam, because I am happy with my own faith.

You're right, it could have caused an argument, but I got the impression that the whole exchange was almost ritual... Besides, I also got the impression that Muzaakboy's translation might have been a bit rouhg - I was thinking more of a sort of 'as you wish', or 'same' than 'and on you'. "Same" is what kids say at my son's school, and it's more ritualistic than argument-starting. Mind you, my son is the king of the nerds, (self-proclaimed) and his friends are chess-and-maths-club types, who aren't into fighting. (Which isn't to say they couldn't or wouldn't, if attacked..but as this isn't an American school, which it seems are scenes of a constant battle for hierarchy, he doesn't have to fight..)

Sura 30 verses 2 - 6

2)Defeated have been the Byzantines in the lands close-by;

3)yet it is they who, notwithstanding this their defeat, shall be victorious

4)with in a few years: [for] with God rests all power of decision, first and last.
And on that day will the believers [too, have caused to] rejoice

5)in God's succour: [for] he gives succour to whomever he wills, since he alone is almighty, a dispenser of grace.

6)(This is) God's promise. Never does Allah fail to fulfil His promise - but most people know (it) not:

To interesting things about these ayaats is first the word in Arabic for 'close by' also means lowest. So it can be read as both defeated in the lands close by, or as, defeated in the lowest land.
Both of these are true to what is being saying.

If you get a topographical globe that showed elevations and depressions it would be easy to ascertain what is the lowest spot on earth. Turned the globe and focus on the area near Jerusalem. There is a small arrow sticking out towards that area with words: The lowest part on the face of the earth.

This means that the wording used is accurate to where it took place but what about the prediction. This Sura was revealed some 6 years before the Hijrah and eight years before the fulfillment of the prophesy. The defeat and victories it mentions are about the last few years of the struggle beteween the persian and byzantine empires.
The verse talks about the event that happened around that time first, which is that the Byzantines occupied territories adjacent to Arabia (Palestine, Jordan and Syria) an the Romans where completly overpowered by the persians (615 AD) So it looked at that time that the destruction of the Byzantine empire seemed imminent.

There are two prophecies in these vesres which are:

1) The Romans shall be victorious

2)The Muslims shall be victorious around the same time.

The keywords used for in a few years in Arabic is bidi 'cineen which portrays a number between 3 and 10.

At this time these prophecies showed no chane of happining but in 622 AD the Emperor Heraclius of Byzantine defeated the persians at issus which is south of the Taurus mountains. In 624 AD the armies of Byzantine destroyed the Azerbaijan lands and destroyed the city of Clorumia. This was 8-9 years after the revelation of that Sura and the Muslims had won a decisive battle at Badr against the Makkan polytheists. Both predictions came true with in the ten year period.

By the way I am not trying to convert anyone and have no idea what religion (if any) you have. All I am doing is defending and sticking up for what I believe.

Adib

>>I just copied this from another thread
"Nature is not cruel, only pitilessly indifferent<<
Excellent points, Diversity!

You have some points but your over looking the most important thing by saying the same to you. Which I will come to in a minute.
Firstly another reason why he said alaikum to them is that he responded to what they said which sounds like a Muslim greeting. If he had ignored them they would call him rude and if he abused them then he would be called rude so by saying alaikum he was simpally answereing the normal Muslim greeting that they pronounsed wrong meaning it draws more respect towards him from other people.

The thing you forgetting is that they told him to die. Which as the prophat (pbuh) was just a man is accurate and would happen sooner or later and by replying Alaikum (same to you) he is acknowleding that he will die and pointing out that they two will one day die.

Adib

The points I was trying to make about the Dawkins quote were roughly:

Despite the use of language ("What is the purpose of that rock?") the rock has no purpose of it's own. The purpose is, in fact, Bill's.

The universe as such has no purpose, yet as Hass almost said, it has purpose in it. (see above)

The question is - how does the purpose get there?

One can argue that the purpose is somehow given - usually by God, but that begs the question (there may of course be no question begging answer, but then we're just left in the dark.), since the question "What was God's reason for choosing that purpose?" may still reasonably be asked.

Function is a necessary, but not obviously sufficient, factor in purpose.

So the question, "what do we mean by purpose?" ie What SORT of thing might count as an answer, must be considered first. I think that's where the puzzlement lies.

Noggin

Good point, Muzaakboy, I mean, I knew what you meant by it, if not exactly the wording...
BTW, I am not a Muslim, I am happy being a Christian, but I find it very interesting to see Islam from the point of view of a believer, as we never hear that here in NZ!

There will be a war in Iraq and the Americans will win.
Does this make me a prophet?
There will be a war in China and they will win.
Does this make me a prophet?
A prophesy that any place in this war mongering world will win or be defeated at some time in history is a bit of a forgone conclusion.
Take any book, like nostradamus, and you will see that prophesy is an interesting 'science'.
We look at them and see what we want to see.
We look at religious books and see what we want to see and exclude and do not see what we do not wish to see.
I have a feeling that the scientific data might be the same.
but still, What we believe is very real to us all.

nostradamus madee many predictions and along with the ones that came true he made twice as many that did not. The Quran has not done that. Plus your saying that America is going to win a war against Iraq is nothing as its only next month when they start bombing and we know that Iraq has no chance of winning. But to put what is being said in the Quran in perspective your picking the winning side the Quran chose the losing side. Besides which it gave a short time limit said the foe who was vastly out numbered and looking like it was going to be defeated would win and that at the same time period Islam would win a massive victory of such.
At the same time it also told you the location which is the lowest point of land on earth which was definitly not known back then as the palce of the battle. (Not the Muslim one). Which is far more than your perdiction.

Go to this site about it:

http://www.ifew.com/insight/v12i02/quranins.html

Plus to see about the scientific facts in the Quran you can go to the link on my page called rationalreality or some thing similer or you could go to http://www.it-is-truth.org/ModernScience.shtml
or read the entrys I have written on the subjects.

Plus your prophacy is just one thing does not have the other points in the Qurans ones and you have not made a book that has been proven to be exactly the same as it was 1400 years ago containing scientific data that we do not know of in this time period and written in such away that no one can reproduce anything like it and has a mathmitical formula in it to prove its divinty, or have you?

Adib

Hey I know your not a Muslim and its great you do have faith in one God. They are the most important things in Islam. That is why we do not mind the christians and Jews and other monothesiem religions as they all believe in one God.

Though of course we belief your bible has become distorted over time we still hold you in respect over the none believers. No offence you none believers out there. We respect you in light of your own way as we are told there are some who are spiritally blind, deaf and dumb. Meaning they will never see the truth. Thats why we are not allowed to punish people for not believing as faith by force means nothing.

Adib

Hiya Della!
Thanks. Sometimes I wonder if everyone that we quote doesn't just show what we know from another perspective.

After all, it does seem like dead people have gotten us as far as we are so far...

'spiritually blind deaf and dumb,'
Thanks, but that's not 'respect'.

It does not mean it in the way you think. It means the ability to believe is not there as your eyes, mind and ears are closed to that it. Its hard to explain. Physically and mentally your fine but you just have shut your selfs from being able to believe. But any way what I mean by respect is that even thoughing to us we find it hard to comprehend how you can not believe we accept that as part of who you are as there is no compulstion in religion. So we respect your right of choice as much as I respect christians fo being christians.

Adib