h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

[fg, lost in the black hole of work]

Can I be first in line to get on the ship bound for Alpha Centaurai?

Sure, along with me.

Courtesy

At this time I would like to make a semi-shameless plug

The BookNook is back up and running. If you aren't sure of where it is, there is a link off of my homepage.

Courtesy

well, sorry about the multi-posting back there....it WAS being very odd last night. i would post, get an error message, try to refresh, and get something that said "xml error postin-". soooo sorry.

re the black hole thing...frankly, creating a black hole in a supercollider is akin to the who cold fusion furor of a few years back. they can theoretically create it, but truly, i don't think we have to worry about it any time soon. theory and reality are sometimes miles apart.

my question is what we should do about those american, british, and german citizens who are found to have ties to al-qaeda. should we treat them as hostile prisoners of war, traitors, or political detainees? should they be allowed the standards of the geneva convention, or not?

[Amy] - busy (Bagpuss has come to stay ).

MR -

GOOOOOOOOD question. Personally, I think that just having interaction with al queda does not make a terrorist. If the individuals are proven to have close contact with al queda (e.g. being involved in planning, training) then they should be detained.

With regards to how to be detained, I believe that terrorists should be viewed as unlawful combatants, as they don't belong to a nation or standing army, and that they basically give up the rights that they had when they were part of a nation.

I'm not sure if the geneva convention applies.

My worry is more the burden of proof that needs to be met.

Courtesy (who is going home for the night)

Not all matter is stuck in black holes- radiation is known to escape

i'd be willing to give up some freedom if it meant that september 11th doesn't have a sequel. how much i don't really know, and i'm not sure i'd trust the current administration with any more power than they already have.

sea- you've already given up quite enough freedoms, thank you very much. (Mine were in the bag, too.) There is no way to guarentee an end of the type things "THEY" want to use to restrict your rights and freedoms. Identiy cards, anyone??hmm? (Oh yeah, rant, rant, rant.)

On a lighter note-Offshoots of scientific research-the entire Appollo program is justified, imho, if for nothing other than teflon and velcro (oh yeah, and polycarbonate[lighter lenses for the peepers]).

Can't just this moment recall the title, but, recently read a sf book about some fella doing black hole work and lost it (the black hole, that is). Story was about trying to find and re-harness it from the core of the earth. Funny thing, they found another one in there and I think they decided it was how the interplanetary society
"conventioned" new nuclear species. Just build a black hole and launch it at them and quit worring about them, Will try to dig it up for a title. Hoot, anyway.
*a-ling*

{[caer csd] it seems sound waves can escape black holes too, judging by the noise from No2 son's room }

[-B-]
*Preparing for going on holiday, writing to-do-lists for cow-orkers.*

[Amy]

On Al Qaeda prisoners. I am strongly of the opinion that there are only two ways to deal with them. Either
a) They are prisoners of war. This is an official war and they should be held according to the Geneva Convention. Hence they can be held indefinately and are subject to military rules but get the advantages of keeping silent etc. (Not that I know much about the Geneva Convention)
b) They are civilian terrorists and it is not a war. Hence they should be held, charged and tried as civilians, just as the British Government does with the IRA etc.
What I really don't like is the way they are held militarily but are refused any rights they should get under that system. Oh, and they should all be held similarly, whither they are Afghani, Pakistani, British, American, whoever. Just beause your mum lives in Calfiornia should not mean you get an easier ride.

[Sol]

¶[LIL]

Sporky - My understanding is that radiation is not escaping the black hole, but is being generated by the matter which is tipping over the event horizon. The matter is being speeded up to such a degree that the molecules are generating the radiation. I'm not sure on this, so I'm interested in hearing your opinion.

Munckin - I definitely agree that all prisoners should be treated the same, regardless of nationality.

Courtesy

On detaining suspected domestic terrorist connected people, I feel that if it is known that someone is engaging in illegal acts they must be detained. But alas the line of the burden of proof is far too fine for my judgment.

On giving up personal freedoms in lieu of possible saftey, you are not safe regardless so why gve up your personal freedoms. I hate to say it but the government has been looking for an excuse that the public will accept to remove so very many of our freedoms. It is complete folly to say "Take this freedom away if it will help keep me safe". When we give a freedom away to our "protectors" we never get it back. Or at least we will not lightly get it back. Look at how long it took to abolish the dreadfull practise of slavery in the US. Far too many people are taking your line of thought, Sea, and telling that to their elected officials. I think that this is truly the way that terrorisim works and wins. I do not pretend to have the answers, but I can definately say that any steps down tihs path are too many to take.

Why yes, I feel strongly about this issue, why do you ask?

What personal freedoms are we talking about here? Should they be different for citizens than they should for non-citizens?

What would each of you be willing to give up and not give up in the interest of your personal safety and the safety of your country?

I am willing to give up very little to an administration (And this goes beyond the shrub in office, I trust no politician) that is demonstrably lacadaisical about personal freedoms (speach primarily but also privacy). This idea of removing privacy from our lives and doing it for The Greater Good is simply the way that politicians get to pry into our personal lives with abandon. Nothing will replace my privacy and my right for free speach, not even the veil of safety that is nothing more than a facade. I am not safer for Dubya having made another spy agency, in fact I am less safe as my personal liberty is at stake.