h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

OK, we've exhausted that topic, what next?

How about the scientists in the Northeastern US, who want to create a "small" black hole, to study. Their idea is that they can create subatomic black holes in supercoliders and then study them.

My issues are twofold. First, wouldn't a "small" black hole, by definition, end up being a big black hole as matter entered it's event horizon. Second, why does it seem that scientists do things without any thought to the moral or physical impact it would have on the world.

Finally, I'm not talking about "optical" black holes, which are also very interesting and I would love to talk about.

Courtesy

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*at 9 pm warmer inside than outside - again*

Courtesy, mabey I am failing to see it here but what are the moral considerations on making a black hole?

IMO the moral considerations are the impact it will have on the rest of the world if it gets out of control.

It seems that the scientists want to look at a black hole, they think they can create one, they *think* they can control it, so they go ahead and try it. Morality might not be the right word, however the fact that a single group of individuals might make a choice that could affect the entire world, with little or no oversite, is bothersome.

Marv - did that explain it?

Courtesy

{[caer csd] if they want to study a black hole, would No2 son's room be out of the question? Its amazing how much rubbish his room can attract

Sorry for being flippant Courtesy, I think the sound of creating a black hole sounds distinctly dodgy but my views may be coloured by watching too many sci-fi programmes on tv}

no worries on being flippant, it's always a good thing to remember to smile.

I'm sure that the scientists would be very interested in No2 son's room as they would be able to study the irresistable force (black hole) vs. the immovable object (son's clutter), I'm sure it would probably start a whole new branch of science

With regards the dodgy idea, my sentiments exactly, and I'm worried that only the sci-fi people might realize the potential consequences. I'm not saying it will happen, but the *if* is a bit to large to make me feel comfortable.

courtesy

Courtesy, what is the difference between the first black hole you described and an optical black hole?

Caer, I've got one of those bedrooms in my house, too.

An optical black hole is so incredibly interesting I'm going to geek out for a second


First you get a mixture of supercooled gases that will retard the speed of light, experiments have slowed light to 17 meters per second. Some experiments have actually stopped light.

Second, you set the mixture spinning, then you send in a light beam. If the mixture is spinning faster than the light is moving, then the light will be trapped. Thus an optical black hole.

The optical black hole would have so little mass that it would not be able to swallow much mass, only light.


You can do a google search for optical+black+hole, and you will get several articles.

Courtesy

Courtesy, at what point would the ability to control said black hole be able to be controlled to make it safe enough to be consionable? Perhaps doing this experiment in a vacume? Not that it would keep the black hole form getting out of controll, but would that be safeguard enough?

Personally, I think that there are certain things that should just be left alone.

I'm not sure, at what point it would be okay. When we are dealing with the fundamental forces of nature, I believe we need to have a better understanding before going forward.

What do you believe?

courtesy

uh

I was reading about this earlier during the year, not sure how long ago, but at least a few months. The way I read it, the scientists weren't trying to create a black hole for matter, but for electrons or some such.

Not that I'm for it at all.

it's hard to think about black holes and optical black holes when you haven't had enough caffeine recently...

day... four? of my attempt at going cold-turkey. slipped a bit at lunch and drank half a cup of watery, flat pepsi. don't think it had much of a caffeine content, but oh well. will keep you updated.

Courtesy, As all the information that I have available to me at this time (not much and dated I am sure) states that physical black holes are theoretical at best I am not sure that the experiments are going to ammount to much. I do think that stifling sceintific innovation has it's own dangers. Even when research is for something far different, innovation can happen in the strangest of place. The ideas that came out of the manhattan project show that. High energy physics has a lot more to do than just nukes. There was a lot of innovation to come from that group of sceintists that created the first nuke that went into many differnet feilds.

Marv -

I agree that the stifling of scientific research should be considered carefully, and I am by no means suggesting that we stop all research.

I agree that research brings so much to the human community, just look at what the Apollo program brought about. With regards the Manhattan Project, my understanding is that the scientists had a firm theoretical idea for what could and might happen. From what I have read, the scientists don't really know what to expect, that is what scares me more than anything else.

Physical black holes have left the realm of theory, and are now believed to abound throughout the universe. My worry is not in studying black holes, but in creating them. The theory behind a black hole states that matter cannot escape from it, and the more matter goes into it the denser it gets, and the more gravitational pull it will have, repeat cycle ad infinitem. I imagine a giant vacuum cleaner, with the speed setting continually going up.

Now I'm not sure what the answer is, I know I don't have enough knowledge on the subject to promote an educated opinion.

Opinions (educated and otherwise, sought)
Courtesy

{[caer csd] I'm very concerned at tampering with nature, GM plants, genes etc, but I can also see the benefits for the good, ie drought resistant grains, organs for transplant. But if it were possible to create black holes, that in theory is ok, providing they could be shut down too however I can't really see the point of creating one in the first place.

Isn't there a theory somewhere about every galaxy has black holes and that only some are 'hungry' or active and that the recently discovered one in the middle of our galaxy is a 'hungry' one?}

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2000/massivebholes.shtml

Draught resistant plants, medicines, cures - all of these are designed to counteract the natural balance of nature, where draught and diseases are ways of keeping down over-population of species - what happens when mankind has achieved all these goals?

Titania -

Hopefully by that time we will have perfected space flight and started colonizing other planets and stars. Otherwise we will be have some serious issues on this planet, as if we don't already.

Courtesy