h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

*looks vague*

Remember I wasn't actually TAUGHT any of these things...what's SPO

, I'm already too tired, it would be

Ich fahre den PC runter ( SPO ), but I have omitted the subject, so it's just predicat and object left in the other version.

, I'm already too tired, it would be

Ich fahre den PC runter ( SPO ), but I have omitted the subject, so it's just predicat and object left in the other version.

Ich (S = subject) fahre (P = predicate) den PC (O = object)

I am very confused, but I have been reminded that I have been planning to ask to be taught about word order and stuff, because I am not too sure how I should really be constructing sentences, and they didn't really teach us much of that at school. So yeah... I'm sleepy, and I feel sick. I just felt like mentioning that.

I knew I forgot about something! Sorry for my late reply!

Here we go:

WORD ORDER – BASICS

Let’s start off with a simple declarative sentences:

I like pizza.
Ich mag Pizza.
subject – predicate – object (SPO)

I do not like pizza.
Ich mag Pizza nicht.

(“Pizza” is fourth case: you put “nicht” after the fourth case. If you need some help with cases please tell me.)

I do not like the stupid ugly old green pizza.
Ich mag die blöde hässliche alte grüne Pizza nicht.

The last example showed you where to put adjectives: as in English you put them in front of the noun you want to describe (i.e. between the article and the noun).

a tasty pizza
eine gute Pizza

If you want to emphasize that you don’t like PIZZA, you can start the sentence with that word:

Pizza mag ich nicht.


This rose is beautiful.
Diese Rose ist schön.

This rose is not beautiful.
Diese Rose ist nicht schön.
(same word order as in English)

This yellow rose is not beautiful
Diese gelbe Rose ist nicht schön.

but:
I don’t like this rose.
Ich mag diese Rose nicht.

I don’t eat this rose.
Ich esse diese Rose nicht.

("Rose" is 4th case - thus you have to put "nicht" after the word "Rose"


If this makes sense to you, there’ll be a sequel to that lecture. If you don’t understand what’s going on, we’ll start all over again. If you want to learn about more complex sentences we can move on to those.

In general I’d recommend the following: try to get a feeling for the language. Don’t try to learn word order by heart. Just read a simple German text and you’ll get a feeling for word order. I’m speaking from experience: I’m busy learning French at the moment. It helps me a lot to read French texts - even if I don’t understand everything, it helps me to comprehend the structure of the language.


katkodl

I understand.... I have no idea what fourth case means, but aside from that I understand.

CASES


There are four cases (“Fälle”):

1. Fall: Nominativ (1st case)
2. Fall: Genitiv (2nd case)
3. Fall: Dativ (3rd case)
4. Fall: Akkusativ (4th case)

Let’s start off with the first and fourth case:

Ich mag die Rose.

Ich: 1st case
die Rose: 4th case

How do I know? – I ask the following questions:

Who (or what) likes the rose? (Wer (oder was) mag die Rose?) – answer: „Ich“
„Wer oder was...?“ (who or what...?): By asking this question you find out what the subject (invariably 1. Fall) is.

Whom (or what) do I like? (Wen (oder was) mag ich?) – answer: die Rose
„Wen oder was...?“ (whom or what...?): By asking this question you find out what the object (4. Fall) is. (Here: Akkusativobjekt)


Does that make sense?


katkodl

Ok.... so first case is the subject and the fourth case is the object, and you put the word "nicht" after the object. I got ya... I think.

4th case is „an“ object: Akkusativobjekt. There are many different kinds of objects.
examples: Modalobjekt, Lokalobjekt…


Lokalobjekt:

I’m sitting in the car.
Ich sitze im Auto.
Subjekt – Prädikat – Lokalobjekt.

Where am I sitting? (Wo sitze ich?) – answer: im Auto
If you have to ask „where“ the answer is classified as „Lokalobjekt“.
Thus “im Auto” is a Lokalobjekt.

Ich sitze nicht im Auto.
I am not sitting in the car.


Modalobjekt:

I am sad and depressed.
Ich bin traurig und deprimiert.
Subjekt – Prädikat – Modalobjekt.

Wie bin ich? (literally: How am I?) – answer: traurig und deprimiert
If you have to ask “wie” the answer is classified as “Modalobjekt”.
Thus “traurig und deprimiert” is a Modalobjekt


Ich bin nicht traurig und deprimiert.
I am not sad and depressed.


Thus: your idea “you put the word “nicht” after the object” is not always true:
You put the word “nicht” after the “Akkusativobjekt”.
You put the word “nicht” in front of the “Modalobjekt” and in front of the “Lokalobjekt”.





katkodl

*sneaks up behind Katkodl and suggests talking about word and adjective endings, oh and when to use in or im, and...yes okay that's all the language thing can think of at this second.

sneaks away*

*sneaks back in*

word endings depending on nom, acc, dat, and gen. I never learnt the genitive case.

*sneaks out wondering why it is sneaking*

I thought I’d go on teaching other cases and stuff as soon as someone has replied to my nominative-accusative lecture (or whatever that was ). People don’t seem to be THAT excited about learning German!


im = in dem


I’ve kind of lost the plot on that thread… gotta look through what we’ve already talked about in order to find a way of how to continue teaching in a sensible way. Or maybe some other teacher wants to jump in?

katkodl

Zu antworten ist sehr schwierig. Es gab nichts zu üben, also stelle ich neue Fragen.

It is very difficult to answer. There was nothing to practice so I am asking new questions.

You're of course right. (Aren't you always right, hon? ) On the other hand, it would have been sufficient if people had said whether they understand what’s going on or not. As soon as everyone (that’s an estimated 1.3 people by the by ) is silent it could either be because no one is interested, or because the lecture was too complicated.

Who knows…

But we’ll find a way to make that whole teaching thingy more effective, won’t we? Maybe our newest member Floh has an idea?

By the way, Floh: Welcome!

katkodl

~ ~ ~ LECTURE – INTERROGATIVES ~ ~ ~

Before we can go on teaching, we need to learn interrogatives – we’ll need them for learning about cases:

wer? – who?

was? – what?

wo? – where?

wann? – when?

wie? – how?

warum? – why?

weshalb? – why?

wieso? – why?

wen? – who(m)?

wessen? – whose?

wem? – whom?


Have I missed any out?

-

Ich glaube nicht, gut gemacht, Katkodl. Vielleicht können wir die Leute bitten zu jedem Fragewort wenigstens einen Satz zu bilden ?

I don't think so, well done, Katkodl.
Perhaps we can ask people to build atleast one sentence with each interrogative ?

I think that’s a good idea – then it will be easier to learn the cases and different objects. But I suppose we need to give a few more instructions first. We haven’t talked about word order in questions and stuff like that yet. Would you like to take over ? I won’t be online again before Thursday.

katkodl

I'm not good at teaching or explaining - but I'll try

*sits in one of those lecture chairs with the table bit thing and takes notes*

I’m sure you can do this, Bel! ...and some for the breaks!