h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

He was overwhelmed and attacked from all sides until you got him to runaway. HOw are you supposed to resond to 20 highly critical messages everytime you log on in a coherrent manner?

Intolerance is like mold, it grows best in a dark slimy place. A little sunlight, and it'll go away. If you bomb it, you destroy everythig around it.

He was trying to reach out and express some tolerance. His expressions were sloppy, but he seemed to be trying.

What's his impression of this place? I went there. I expressed an opinion. I tried to revise my opinion before being run off by a bunch of homosexual loving liberals.

He ignored us repeatedly and dodged questions. It was clear to him from the start that his ideas were unpopular, that was no suprise, and he did plenty of baiting of his own.
I'm supposed to take being called a drunken, promiscuous slag with good humour and tolerance since he doesn't know any better?
I really hope that is not your opinion. I'm f**ked off with being dissed as a homosexual-loving liberal, a politically-correct apologist, a tree-hugging environmentalist. Caleb thought in cliches and it's my natural reaction to try and introduce such people to wider thinging.
Nowhere did I see him attempting to express tolerance. I saw him go over the same ground in an attempt to prop up his ideas, ignore things when it suited him and make no attempt at polite conversation.
Aye, he may have been young but I know that at his age I had more sense than to post such inflammatory views to a public forum.
and as someone else has said, he's probably only off because school's out.

In his journal entry on homophobia, he seemed to be trying to say that his homophobia was unhelpful. He thought that he should probably help homosexuals stop sinning. Then several people responded by questioning his religous beliefs. It wasn't as bad as the bewildering number of posts here.

I don't like christanity. I think organized religion is silly, but I'm not going to attack someone for their beliefs. Actually, I should correct that, I won't attck someone for their beliefs first. I will retaliate for certain attacks on me. I recall one time my mother forwarded a message that questioned the patriotism of non-chirstians. I attacked christanity and christians in my response. ... but I digress.

I just don't think this community is accepting as it pretends to be.

I won't attack someone for their beliefs either, first or otherwise, unless their beliefs sanction targeting, abusing or attacking others.
As I recall it (reread yesterday) Caleb said that his 'hurting [homosexuals] with violence' was unhelpful, and he no longer considered himself homophobic. However he still, and continues to, make justification for ridiculing and attacking them because of their 'choice'.

Hi Two-bit,

What about the peaceful people who are being persecuted because they happen to be gay? Aren't they on the fringe? We are trying to be inclusive of those people and if it at the expense of some hateful, downright dumb bigot then that's no big loss to the community is it?

"Have you ever noticed where terrorists come from? They come from oppressed and desperate groups." The Gay community is severely oppressed by people like Caleb. I don't see them taking up arms.

So, given a choice between gay folk and homophobic folk which would you choose?

Ste

Having just caught up with the overnight additions to this thread, I would like to throw my tuppence worth into the ring.

I and the vast majority of people posting here have tried to engage Josh & Caleb in a sensible reasoned discussion of their views, pointing out the inconsistencies, the pick and choose mentality to biblical verse etc.

In response they did try to at least raise the level of their discussion from the fire and brimstone preacher speak to answer some (I know not all) of our questions. Two Bit is right that it must have been difficult for them to get hit with 20+ posts everytime they logged on, but that did not seem to stop them coming back.

I have found this site on the whole to be reasonably liberal in its outlook, and whilst there is a level of homophobia & sexism it is the low level sort that society currently seems to be prepared to tolerate.

I do hope that Josh and Caleb return and that we can continue to gently persuade them that their views need to be moderated. etc.

I would also welcome Justin to join this conversation as I woould like to find out what really motivates his views on homosexuality (and also his view that Catholicism is an unacceptable christian sect).

Having also just caught up,

TBTPM,

I thought this was a discussion forum. Nobody asked Caleb to put forward offensive homophobic views, and surely you're not saying he has the right to put forward his views with impunity?

My impression of this thread is this... there have been 2 approaches to the discussion; to argue with Josh & Caleb on the grounds of compassion & general morality, and to debate the inconsistencies of biblical interpretation. Josh has argued his corner, saying that the Old Testament Laws in Leviticus are not relevant because of Christ's death, and the basis of his belief is found in the New Testament. The debate them moved to the inconsistent application of New Testamant instruction, specifically St Paul's teachings about the role of women. The point being that if the Bible has been set aside for women in the modern world, then it can be set aside for homosexualilty. At this time, Josh hasn't managed to answer this. I hope he does, because I'm enjoying this part of the debate.

Caleb hasn't stepped up to the plate. He has laid down smokescreens (incest, anyone?), procrastinated and ignored counter-argument, yet still clings to his homophobia. Some people (including me) have become frustrated and angry with Caleb. He's prepared to ostracise a section of society without even the decency of having a reason that stands up to any scrutiny. And he knows it. His youth doesn't excuse this.

If it's intolerant to get angry with mindless bigots spouting poison, then colour me intolerant. I won't be shedding any tears if Caleb decides not to come back.

Ste, completely agree, why are homophobic comments allowed on this site. and after saying rather a lot of them, is there a case for eviting people if they don't respond to warnings?

Homophobia should be treated the same as racism and sexism

so he offends all pagans then, Mandragora? i think I'll avoid him then, being a pagan.

Do you think he knows that paganism is a nature spiritual tradition, or is he taking the yawn-making view that it merely means godless? If thats the case let Cernunnos strike him down (my God!)

I've got no problem being a homosexual-loving liberal, was it meant to be an insult? I consider it a compliment.

Next time I will compose my replies all together and post one post not three!

Hi Kaz... unfortunately now I seem to have given the idea that people who follow a certain religion shouldn't be allowed onsite. Which would be ridiculous coming from me...
Justin included Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, non-Christian-type major religions, and 'Pagans proper', at least spelling it with a capital. Don't think it'd make any difference if he knew or not, either way I can't see it being justified to him. (Nor the fact that, to me, his God's just as valid as any other...)

Under the present law it is illegal to discriminate against anyone because of their sex,race or sexual orientation when applying for jobs,housing etc.. Unfortunately this law doesn't seem to apply to web sites. Perhaps one for the italics to look into?

>So, given a choice between gay folk and homophobic folk which would you choose?

I wouldn't choose either. I can get a long with almost anyone. Many of the people I work with are homophobic. I've hung out with homosexuals too. People from either group are pretty easy to get a long with. Although, I don't like effeminate men. In my experience, I'm going to have much more in common with a homophobe.

Preachy christians can really get me p**sed off when they're trying to oppress others. However, I will stand up for them if they're attacked. Christians, or any other people that believe in gods or spirits or other bugaboos, have a right to either opinion, no matter how misguided they are.

>So, given a choice between gay folk and homophobic folk which would you choose?

like TBTPM I don't mind as I get on with most people, as a gay man I dont like effeminate men either (I want my men to be men). I can certainly talk to homophobes = if they will talk to me that is; I just want to know why they dislike homosexuals.

I get hacked off by anyone that oppresses others, I also support everyones right to think whatever the hell they like, worship whatever deity they want and to say whatever they like, so long as what they say is within the boundaries of the law etc.

Think I'll have a bit too much of the backlog here to make an intelligent comment at the moment I go away for a little while and this thread spreads so far.

as regards Justin and his comments about no perverts in paradise, I yikes it and it was deemed not to be braking the house rules.

Not many Popes there that's for sure.

Alji

I didn't mean that to sound anti-catholic, I don't think there are many leaders of people in general, in Heaven.

Alji

I think it qualifies, since he meant 'perverts' as an insult.
And who's he to say who's in heaven or otherwise? bet he's never been.

and with attitudes like that, probably never will!