h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Well the French have voted NON, and the Dutch are about to vote over this (we have to wait and see the result) and others are about to vote too!


So i was wondering if its at all possible to open a sensible debate!


"Just what do "WE" want out of the EU!"


RJR

I think the EU is running nicely as it is, although I wish the Brits would join in. I'm no ecomomist, but I feel that if they started trading with their European neighbours instead of New Zealand and Australia, it would be better for everyone.

I don't see what a constitution will achieve; my country already has a constitution. Will the EU one over-ride it? If not, what's the point in having it?

Who's "WE" ?

I will have to try and read it again before giving an answer Until later...
BCNU - Crescent

I presume "WE" means the h2g2 researchers. But quite a few researchers are not in the EU, so they would want quite different things out of the EU from the researchers who are in the EU.

NON! They can stick the whole un-democratic process up their collective derrieres.

As Gnomon said, Europe works fine as it is. Though I would point out we do more than our fair share of propping up the EU, hence the Rebate which may be the one sensible thing MT ever did. I'll be damned if I see a reason why we should subsidise basically crap farming methods used by the French.

Oh, and trading with OZ and NZ is of course historical, going back to the days of commonwealth. Difficult to break now.

The "WE" to which i refer is to the lot of us, i'm just trying to spark a debate, to find out what people think of the EU weather your in it, or outside of it, in the true tradition of the BBC a "balanced debate please" but as someone who lives inside the "EU" but as a brit tends to be "opted out" by the goverment, i would like for my goverment more involved in the "EU" single currency thing, but not i'm not impressed by some of the directives sent out by the "EU" like the "stright cucumbers" directive thingy, also the fact that the "bigger members" can ignore what suits them and the smaller members "knuck under" and sort of pay more for the priviage!
Now i know thats has sort of simplefied things alot, but i can allways be asked to elobrate!




RJR

Yes. I think ratification of the current treatise (is that the plural?) inevitable, really, and if it all does go pearshaped, there will be a lot of bad blood and possibly insurmountable damage to what are already fairly tenuous European relations.

Crikey, long sentence.

I've no idea what's in it really. So I'd like a bit more info before I went off and voted.


My views about Europe in general are largely what Blue just said except that I'm not particularly convinced about it working fine as it is. The North Sea Cod might have something to say on that, the collective bargaining used to set fish quotas and the like is diabolical. A few steps back might be better imo.

One thing I note is that they don't like learning from mistakes.
OK, lets try this erm thing as a precursor to a common currency.
Oh blimey, it's sent half of Europe into major recession.
Bugger it, lets do it anyway.

Never understood that one and I'm glad we're not in the Eurozone. (UK that is)

Why would I want other countries to tell us what laws Denmark should have? Luckily I think the Danes voting yes is very unlikely. We're not known as EU's problem child for nothing

Might be worth a look see

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2950276.stm

Having looked at only two or three things there my first opinion is that it is far too complex a document for a straight NO or YES to be a reasonable judgement. (No surprise on its lenght )

I'm not really a big fan of simple referendums as they are too simplistic.

>> although I wish the Brits would join in. I'm no ecomomist, but I feel that if they started trading with their European neighbours instead of New Zealand and Australia, it would be better for everyone. <<

Clearly you're not an economist. The UK trades far more with the EU than Australia/NZ. Unhelpful comments like "wish the Brits would join in" - er, the UK contributes a huge amount to the EU. Other European countries like to paint us as unco-operative for their own domestic agenda, but in reality Germany and especially France veto as much as they please to suit their own national interests, and no-one bats an eyelid. They also manipulated, then ignored the Stability Pact, whilst The Netherlands stuck to the spirit and letter of the pact, to their economic detriment. This is one of the factors driving a NO decision in The Netherlands.

>> I don't see what a constitution will achieve; my country already has a constitution. Will the EU one over-ride it? If not, what's the point in having it? <<

Yes, it will override your country's constitution. European law already overrides individual nation's laws, and so will this.

Until politicians and the Eurocrats actually start listening to the people (and how many countries have ratified the constitution without consulting their electorates? I know Germany can't, but some of the others who have embraced it so enthusiastically look a little foolish now), then these are the results that are likely to happen. And this is what drives people to vote for extremist parties - if their concerns are not being addressed by the mainstream parties. The success of Le Pen is a direct result of the arrogance of Les Enarques in France.

Oh, I'm against it, by the way.

RF

I voted against today in the Netherlands. The outcome was about 38% for, and 62% against, at a turnout of about 62%. The big question: what now? Nobody seems to have had a solid plan of what to do in this situation.

Absolutely NO!

Shut the whole thing down.

Let us have our own currency back.

Send all those people back to the Carpathians, or wherever it is they came from.

Fill in the Channel Tunnel.

Bring back the grenzen.

And I'd like my passport to be blue again please, I don't like that awful red colour.

alec.

"I'll be damned if I see a reason why we should subsidise basically crap farming methods used by the French".

I'm sort of with you on this, except that the French seem to eat better, which makes me wonder whether there's something in all this stuff about protecting small farms after all. On the other hand, it might just be because the UK is more urban, or a climate thing, or because British people are too squeamish to choke their chickens themselves, and need it done out of sight by some strange machine.

It seems that were going down the "i know what i don't want!" sort of thread, i would like to seemore of the "what i would like to see happen" Myself what i would like to see is a less "intervention" from goverenments, to stop the "Nannying" approch! more commonsence please!




RJR

I would like the option they just suggested on the News (now the Dutch have also said NO!). '...will the political and economic integration go into reverse and see a Europe more like a free trading bloc in the way that British governments have tended to support?'

Yes please

The one thing i don't want to see is the EU simply reduced to a free trading bloc. Apart from the difficulty it would represent with regard to the flooding of UK markets with cheap European agricultural produce which we woulsd have no way of stopping, it is exactly what the French were voting *against*.

The difficulty is that the Constitution was designed to integrate all the newer members. The Treaty of Nice, which is now all that holds it together was only ratified by about half of present Europe.

The question of Turkey remains huge - the inability of Europe to hold out a hand yto a sectarian government in a Muslim country may yet have disasterous consequences in the wests relationship with Islam in general. The fact tyhat we now cannot use EU membership as a carrot for the regime in Kosovo may have disasterous conquences for the people of the Balkans.

Oh, and if you really want to know why the French eat better than us, I'd suggest asking your average Frenchman what they think of supermarkets...

*sigh*

Can we please scotch the myth about bendy bananas? Yes, there are EU regulations on grading different categories of fruit. These rules already existed in indivual countries' legislation before being amalgamated into EU-wide guidelines (so that a buyer in Country X has some idea of what she's buying when she orders some category 2 cucumbers)

My views on the constitution? Pro in theory, but it hasn't been handled very well, and I'm not that surprised at the No votes.

I don't think it spells the end of the EU, but will prompt some serious rethinking.