h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I somewhat question this. While Paisley's religious views are definitely based on religious extremism, Sinn Fein are a secular party. It so happens that, historically, nationalism has equated to catholic tribalism (give or take a Wolfe Tone). In fact, as I recall, when McGuiness was N.I. Minister for Education, one of his aims was the de-segregation of schools - a move opposed by both the Protestant parties and the Catholic church.

(I'm not defending Sinn Fein - just pointing out the lazy mistake of characterising recent Irish history as a simple tale of religion)

I heard a gay Northern Irish guy talking about a Prod minister who said "There are only about 300 homosexuals in Northern Ireland" - on which he commented "Then every single one of them were in our club last Saturday night".

yes but in electoral terms the celtic finges have hardly any reprentation. The vast majority of the UK MPs depend upon the English vote; so if they represent the status quo - no worries as far as I'm concerned. Gay marriage could easily be passed in the next parliament. For god's sake it's bigger than fox hunting.....

But it's how it plays in the counties and suburbs that counts. Labour will be paranoid about alienating the 'traditional' support which they've captured from the Tories (by moving rightwards). In a desire to appear 'all things to all men' they will first propose gay marriage, then start furiously back-pedalling to find a compromise. They will also be worried about the Bishops in the House of Lords and about the Muslim vote. Blair will, in any case, give much weight to the caterwauling of the religious, being a god-botherer himself. This will be dressed up as seeking a pluralist, inclusive, diverse solution.

Hell - if they were serious at a party level about being positive on gay rights, There wouldn't have been such a fuss when Mandelson was outed by Matthew Pariss. For heavens sake - he and Reinaldo did a photo spread in the Sunday Times in the early 1990s!

Out of interest, what countries have allowed gay marriges, and have they experienced any of the 'end of the civilization' events that the Daily Mail claims will happen if gay marriges are allowed in the UK?

Depends whether we count 'civil union' as marriage.

Off the top of my memory....Canada, Denmark, Germany....doubtless many more (The Netherlands, surely?).

As essentially a private club with rules dictated by members I cant see how the government could or even should force through gay marriage, but even when the church would not allow divorcees to re-jump the broom the state did allo civil marriages. So I think that gay men and women should be allowed that same right too.

one love

The Netherlands and Belgium have both legalised gay marriages but as far as the Daily Mail is concerned they are a modern day Sodom and Gommorrah

I thing what the religious argue is that gay marriage is a symptom that we are already sliding towards the breakdown of civilisation - sexual permissiveness, family breakup, etc.

Myself, I blame family breakup on capitalism, but then I'm a wishy-washy unreconstructed Marxist. It seems to me that anything that will encourage two men or two women to bring up children within a stable environment should be actively encouraged. Pass the turkey baster!

I've never quite understood that argument myself - gay marriages and allowing gay adoption is undermining families by creating more people who could form a family? It's probably because I'm a liberal poofter that I can't see the Mail's highly accurate and non-sensational point

what makes me laugh is when people say homosexuality is 'unnatural'. I have seen numerous nature programmes where various species of primates have homo and heterosexual liassons. Sexual relations are as much about social bonding and cohessiveness, as they are about reproduction.

viva gay and straight liassons!

Bonobos, for example.

(Oddly, I never new this before I chose my name and subsequently had it pointed out. I knew that macaque monkeys were lesbians, though).

As Boy George once said 'God must have had a divine plan, otherwise he wouldn't have hidden the male clitoris up there!'

PS - The only place were primates *don't* have gay relationshiops is within the Church of England

I can destroy that argument instantly. Humans are natural, we may be capable of doing things that are beyond most other natural creatures but we still came from the same source. Therefore anything we do or create is natural - things we create we call artificial but that is just for convienience (sp?), a robot is just as natural as a cow-pat. Therefore my homosexuality is just as natural as another persons heterosexuality

Simulpost Edward

edward bonabo

>> As Boy George once said 'God must have had a divine plan, otherwise he wouldn't have hidden the male clitoris up there!' <<

Actually, the male equivalent to the clitoris is the penis. The thing that Boy George was referring to, the prostrate, is in fact the male equivalent to the G-spot.

Either way, the end result is the same. Hit it at the right moment and the result can blow your mind!

Donald

Donald are you speaking from experience or imagination......? Either way i fear we are venturing far from the sober subject of marriage...

>> Donald are you speaking from experience or imagination <<

From experience. However, I should point out that prostrate stimulation is not the preserve of Gay men. A well placed finger can do the job just as well, both externally and internally.

Donald

Quite right! Married people don't have sex! (sigh!)

There is a serious point, though. It's been said that the aspect that homophobes have most difficulty in reconciling is 'the bum thing' - despite the fact that a) many gay men are not into anal sex (and for others it's but a part of life's rich smorgasbord); b) numerically, there is far more 'straight' anal sex than gay and c) many straight men enjoy anal manipulation (of these many are scared to admit it in public and of those who haven't tried it, many are scared of letting themselves go there).

How the buggery can something as trivial as bums and willies destroy civilisation?