h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Yeah, but fundamentalists can be incredibly loud.

Absolutely. We have no reason to be afraid. As I think religeous fundemetalism grows out of fear, they do have reason to be afraid and afraidness reinforces their fundementalism............

I thought the UK had enacted an act allowing gay 'civil union' already? Obviously the US hasn't and probably won't for a while.

We in the UK thank goodness are essentially pragmatists. We do not have a tradition of extremism and so gay marriage is no real threat to our society...

"We do not have a tradition of extremism".

As I have spent all day reading about the British civil wars 1640-58ish, I find that one pretty hilarious .

How many people in the UK regularly buy the Daily Mail again?

Just a thought. Maybe the fundies think it's compulsory...

Hi Sea Change,

"...one real life heterosexual engagement that was broken off because there were irreconcilable differences on just how disgusting an idea homosexual marriage is."

Exactly, and my argument is that any heterosexuals who felt their own marriages threatened by the prospect of gay marriage *didn't have a very strong relationship in the first place.* To me, anyone who says that the institution of marriage is threatened by other people being allowed to join it is admitting that they can't keep marriage alive on their own. It's kind of weak. If they had courage, then they could maintain their personal beliefs about marriage no matter how the govt ruled about it, just like some people maintain that abortion is wrong even though the US govt has generally approved it for several decades now.

I think there's more to it than that. My current (hetero) relationship is in danger of breking up over differences of opinion on gay marriage.

Why?

Because thats indicative of how you treat minoritys.
How you view equality.
Whether you take a progressive or traditionalist approach.
Your attitude to diversity.

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As Deidzoeb says, if you and your partner have a difference over any of the items mentioned, its not gay marriages that is the problem. It indicates an overall difference of philosophy and is going to cause problems sooner or later over a wide variety of subjects.

Any friend/partner/associate of mine that had negative opinions on the items mentioned and took the traditionalist approach rather than a progressive one wouldn't be mt friend/partner/associate much longer.

Anyone who thinks diversity is a bad thing really needs a good talking to.

Donald

"As I have spent all day reading about the British civil wars 1640-58ish, I find that one pretty hilarious"

Bouncy I think you'll find thoses were the ENGLISH civil wars. Since the formation of the UK, we have become essentially pragmatic in this country. We have a thriving multi cultural society and the Daily Mail mentality is definitly a small sideshow. Look at how often we now have gay storylines in our dramas. When people vote here it is most definitely 'the economy stupid'...............

>> Bouncy I think you'll find thoses were the ENGLISH civil wars. <<


Well actually the Civil War of 1642-51 when Charles 1 lost his head was a British Civil war. Charles 1 was King of Scotland as well as England. He was the second of the Stuart kings after James 1. Scotland was involved in the Civil War as much as England. Then ask the Irish what they think of Oliver Cromwell!

Donald

whatever Donald. But I still think it is true to say the the institution of the UK has evolved on the mainland into an essentially stable and pragmatic entity in the last 300 years. Look how few votes the British national party gets.......I predict that gay marriage will occur here before very long, and I hope that we get progressively closer to the European Union and turn away from Bush's United States which seem to be in a permanent state of civil war

Actually Charles I was King of England and Scotland and Ireland, and these three countries all underwent a series of wars and had significant effects on each other throughout that time.

Look how many votes UKIP get. From what I've read the political analysis is that most of those votes were anti-immigration rather than anti-European votes. Is this not extremism? Given that its generally accepted that immigration has a very small but overall positive effect on the economy, what reason can there be other than xenophobia?

Yes bouncy but the extremists are never going to get any political power in the forseeable future here in the UK unlike the states. Can you really imagine people here voting on a christian fundementalist issue rather than something middle of the road. We are essentially a secular society. Even the catholic/protestant divide has disappeared in northern Ireland. That's why I think and hope the UK wil gradually look more and more towards European values

"Even the catholic/protestant divide has disappeared in northern Ireland"

Aha.

Ahahaha.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.



H.

Pragmatic

Are you talking about the same country of "back to basics"?

A way of thinking about public standards which totally ignored mistakes of the past in an attempt to right present ills.

Are you talking about the country that elects UKIP candidates?

A party whose sole aim is to steer us out of a economic and social union that could increase stability and secure a fairer future for all. A party headed by an unashamed racist and whose elected members hardly attend the posts the chamber they were elected to.

Are you talking about the allie of the US in the war on Terror?

A war waged by people on terror fought in a place where there were few terrorists but now there are money. A war executed in such a way that more people now support terror and resent us for the way our country has behaved.

Sometimes we do things pragmatically but pour devinely appointed King to be still rides the country side killing minor pests in a terrifically inefficient way that is not pragmatism at the top.

At the bottom people are stil suckered in a by a game that grants millions to the rich but only gives the poor a one in fourteen million chance of getting rich.

The people in the middle arent that diferent either.

one love

Bouncy ok know it hasn't disappeared; it hasn't even disappeared in Scotland but it has ceased to be a political factor in UK elections. I'll bet you anything you like that the next British election will not be won by some party that represents extremism

>>I'll bet you anything you like that the next British election will not be won by some party that represents extremism

It doesn't need to be to appease the right. It seems to me that much of government policy - and especially that emanating from the Home Office - is specifically designed to capture the populist vote from the loony right of the Tories, the bigoted right of UKIP and the deserve-to-have-half-bricks-hurled-at-their-heads right of the British Nazi Party. That is why (apparently) immigration is a problem. (Is it? In what way?). That is why, although we have a falling crime rate, there are ever tougher punitive measures imposed. That is why we immediately opted out of a key part of the best (read 'only') written constitution we have in response to a spurious terrorist threat. And that is why an allegedly pro-European party hasn't even the guts to ask 'Oh yeah? And precisely *which* parts of EU law have negatively impacted you?'

And as for gay marriage...whether or not it happens will once again very much depend on government perception of which way the wind is blowing. That deluded fantasist and recent catholic convert Blair does not have liberal instincts and will be quite prepared to drag religion in to it.

When Catholics start voting for the Ulster Unionist Party and Protestants start voting for Sinn Fein, then you can say that the religious divide has disappeared.

How many people know the religious persuasions of Alex Salmond. Not many I should think. But everyone knows Jerry Adams and Ian Paisley's religious persuasions and if those two don't represent extremism, I don't know what does. Where you live in Northern Ireland is still largely determined by your religion.


Donald