A Conversation for Ask h2g2
What is your objection to God and Religion?
FordsTowel Posted Feb 29, 2008
I'm amazed!!
I had thought this thread had hundreds of posts, and now it seems to be down to 100???
However it happened, I'd responded all that I had intended to; but then, it occurred to me to wonder 'what if' on both sides of the question. Unfortunately, I do not have the wherewithall to truly answer for all 'what if's.
What if atheists are wrong, what happens to them? My first thought is that it depends on the religion, but that was just surface stuff.
I know Christianity and, by extension, Judaism best, but I thought it should be broken down into a simplified list:
1) What if the Christians are right?
2) What if the Jews are right?
3) What if the Christians and Jews are wrong and a different god-based religion is right?
4) What if all religions are wrong and atheists are right?
5) What if the atheists are wrong?
6) What if the agnostics are wrong?
I'm admitting up front that I don't believe I've got these right, and would awfully appreciate help. Second caveat, this speaks only to the good guys. Bad people come in all forms and kinds, regardless of religiosity.
1) If Christians are right, there is God, Heaven, and hell. The saved who have accepted Christ as their savior, and behaved in Christian-like fashion, go to Heaven; all others are handled case-by-case.
2) If Jews are right, you'd better be from one of the 12 families and toed the line; everyone else can look out for themselves.
3) If both Judaism and Christianity are wrong, and a different god-based religion is right, there's no telling who is going to do what with the lot of us.
4) If atheists are right, the religious have wasted time, wasted money, suffered unnecessary guilt and internal conflicts between desires and actions. Hopefully, they've done some good in the world, created some lovely architecture and art, built and staffed hospitals and schools, and treated their neighbors as they would have themselves treated.
Atheists, on the other hand, have had much more time outside of stuffy buildings, saved some money, save a lot of time if they didn't squander it arguing with the deluded devout, and hopefully done some good in the world, created some lovely architecture and art, built and staffed hospitals and schools, and treated their neighbors with respect and love.
5) If the atheists are wrong, they're in big trouble according to most religions. Perhaps a loving God will take pity on their disbelief, but not likely.
6) If agnostics are wrong,... gee, I just don't know; is fence sitting better or worse than picking a wrong side? Still, it would be pretty similiar to #5, I expect.
Any thoughts?
What is your objection to God and Religion?
toybox Posted Feb 29, 2008
I don't have thoughts.
The reason why the thread shrunk is probably that you confused it with F19585?thread=5126320&latest=1 whose title is unfortunately close to this one here (which is Az's thread, lists only )
Seriously, you should repost your question to the other thread.
What is your objection to God and Religion?
Edward the Bonobo - Gone. Posted Feb 29, 2008
The religious haven't wasted time. But knowledge has moved on. Fortunately, humans can adapt. It's what we're famous for.
What is your objection to God and Religion?
anancygirl Posted Feb 29, 2008
Green as you are cabage looking? It does not matter in the evolusionary sense! (I spell as it sounds to a Canuk)except when I find the dictioary and the bifocals. We are just one other organisium (sp) on this planet/ universe ultimatially Who Cares? As a demogharhical boomer there are so many possiblities for humans to focus on why the easy way out to devert our energies to .....?
What is your objection to God and Religion?
DaveBlackeye Posted Feb 29, 2008
Yes. Has anyone covered animals yet? Specifically the notion that we are inherently superior yadda yadda and can therefore treat them howsoever we like?
Apologies if we have, I'm struggling to keep up...
What is your objection to God and Religion?
taliesin Posted Feb 29, 2008
I'm not sure anyone has yet mentioned the anthropocentricity of religion, so please, go ahead!
Another problem/objection: Religion tends to trivialize our 'mortal' life, or our physical existence, in favor of assigning greater value to an alleged 'afterlife'
This 'pie-in-the-sky' attitude does not merely devalue life; it too frequently results in much real-world pain and suffering.
(I've decided not to bother numbering them. It's too confusing )
What is your objection to God and Religion?
Edward the Bonobo - Gone. Posted Feb 29, 2008
I don't think there's anything wrong with anthropocentricity.
Leopards, sharks or mosquitos aren't capable of behaving ethically towards humans. We *can* show compassion towards other species, but it's a byproduct of our social behaviour towards one another. The more like an ickle wee babbie the species looks, the more compassion we tend to feel. But when push come to shove, we must always, *always* favour humans over other animals.
As an illustration:
- A leopard is stalking a zebra. Are we entitled to shoot the leopard to prevent the zebra's death?
- A leopard is stalking a human. Are we entitled to shoot the leopard to prevent the human's's death?
- A human is stalking a zebra. Are entitles to shoot the human to prevent the zebra's death?
Pragmatically, we should be careful which species we kill. Our life depends on a fragile ecology. But that's a human concern. F*** the animals.
What is your objection to God and Religion?
azahar Posted Feb 29, 2008
<> Toy Box
I've sent a request in to Feedback asking if they can change the title of this thread so that it says 'the list thread' in it.
Sorry for the confusion, Fords Towel.
az
What is your objection to God and Religion?
Edward the Bonobo - Gone. Posted Feb 29, 2008
Are entitles??? Are we entitled!
What is your objection to God and Religion?
Dogster Posted Feb 29, 2008
All ur typos are belong to us!
What is your objection to God and Religion?
taliesin Posted Feb 29, 2008
Oh, Ed, you speciesist, you!
The problem isn't anthropocentricity, but 'religiously inspired' anthropocentricity, which falsely claims humans are the specially crafted pinnacle of evolution, and that all other life forms were made for our benefit.
Few would disagree that, being human, we should be inclined to protect and nurture members of our own species over those of another, but that trait is due to evolution and not divine favoritism
Claiming that other life forms exist solely for humans to exploit is wrong because it fails to acknowledge the possibility of other forms of sentience, and more importantly, promotes the false idea humans are somehow exempt from the evolutionary process.
What is your objection to God and Religion?
anancygirl Posted Feb 29, 2008
Check out the Omnivore's Dilemma, or The Brian that Changes itself. Both a good and fun read. Endless possiblities! We are what we eat.
What is your objection to God and Religion?
Edward the Bonobo - Gone. Posted Feb 29, 2008
Proud to be a speciesist.
Of course, not all the religious are anthropocentric. There's even one person on this site who worships some horsie god called Epona. I mean, I like horses, but...
What is your objection to God and Religion?
anancygirl Posted Feb 29, 2008
All life strives toward one purpose. To continue to live, think about the percieved excess of genic material in all life forms that allows adaptation to occur. Think again the about the ability of humans to ponder any question, in the "Natural world Who Cares" Sorry but I've always been the Ya But pain in the donkey and offtimes run out of acceptance with fellow humans. Gosh darm I really need to have optical enhancher to read the dictionary.
Any hope of someone to develop a way of finding misplaced glasses? or longer arms?
What is your objection to God and Religion?
taliesin Posted Feb 29, 2008
anancygirl, I've been meaning to read, 'Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals'
Will it put me off or ?
What is your objection to God and Religion?
DaveBlackeye Posted Feb 29, 2008
Cats are, in my view, the pinnacle of evolution. Highly specialised, extremely good at what they do, and so astoundingly successful that they can afford to sleep 23 hours a day.
And you're trying to say that I, who spends most of the day working to support the family, am superior?
Key: Complain about this post
What is your objection to God and Religion?
- 101: FordsTowel (Feb 29, 2008)
- 102: toybox (Feb 29, 2008)
- 103: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Feb 29, 2008)
- 104: Effers;England. (Feb 29, 2008)
- 105: toybox (Feb 29, 2008)
- 106: anancygirl (Feb 29, 2008)
- 107: DaveBlackeye (Feb 29, 2008)
- 108: taliesin (Feb 29, 2008)
- 109: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Feb 29, 2008)
- 110: azahar (Feb 29, 2008)
- 111: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Feb 29, 2008)
- 112: Dogster (Feb 29, 2008)
- 113: taliesin (Feb 29, 2008)
- 114: anancygirl (Feb 29, 2008)
- 115: DaveBlackeye (Feb 29, 2008)
- 116: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Feb 29, 2008)
- 117: taliesin (Feb 29, 2008)
- 118: anancygirl (Feb 29, 2008)
- 119: taliesin (Feb 29, 2008)
- 120: DaveBlackeye (Feb 29, 2008)
More Conversations for Ask h2g2
Write an Entry
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a wholly remarkable book. It has been compiled and recompiled many times and under many different editorships. It contains contributions from countless numbers of travellers and researchers."