h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Sounds a little like something I have heard before about 'speaking in tongues' - if the brain can shut down the 'conscious override' of the language centres, it produces a stream of gibberish. Or, in this case, random but gramatically meaningful (I assume) text.

Of course, the spiritualists will say that simply showing a mechanism does not say whether the cause is neurological or spiritual; the rationalists will invoke Occam's Razor and say that with no causal space for 'spirits' to fill, they are de facto disproved in this case.

Gif

I would really like to hear from a 'believer' on the subject of the ordination of women bishops. Not about the pros and cons, per se, but how both sides in the Synod can apparently earnestly believe that they have prayed for guidance and that God has replied, yet that this 'divine direction' is so clearly contradictory.

Presumably, each side believes the other is 'simply mistaken' (or even 'led astray') - but if this is possible, doesn't that mean that 'praying for guidance' is, in practical terms, useless?

Gif

On ~jwf~'s syrup plugged funnel: A42586266




When ya claim there's something there we can't see, ya gotta show us where we we can smell, taste, touch or hear the thing, or the sensible thing is to assume for the moment there's nothin' there. In the study of Brazilian spiritualists, all they give us to see, smell, taste, touch or hear is a brain.

and, check your yahoo email, ~jwf~

Of course one could say that this study "proves" that to be an "expert spiritualist" one needs to shut down the brain ...


>> would really like to hear from a 'believer' on the subject of the ordination of women bishops. Not about the pros and cons, per se, but how both sides in the Synod can apparently earnestly believe that they have prayed for guidance and that God has replied, yet that this 'divine direction' is so clearly contradictory.<<

You must know the history of the Church better than I, all that happens is the Church splits. You get the "traditionalists" and the "dissenters". The dissenters go on to found their own churches. Then something else crops up and the "church" splits again. It seems that religion, like many other "entities", tends to follow an evolutionary pattern with time.

Perhaps the issue in this case, which tends to complicate matters, is that here we are considering the state sanctioned religion, the Church of England. Hence I suppose the reason for David Cameron to stick his nose into proceedings with his politically correct statement of being disappointed with the decision.

For my part I think the biggest issue within Anglicanism as the "Church of England" is it stance on homosexuality. Somehow they really should allow homosexuals to be a full part of the church and not "denounceable".

Here is a quote from a former Archbishop [wikicyclops edia]
The previous Archbishop, Desmond Tutu, stated: "The Jesus I worship is not likely to collaborate with those who vilify and persecute an already oppressed minority [...]. I could not myself keep quiet whilst people were being penalized for something about which they could do nothing, their sexuality. For it is so improbable that any sane, normal person would deliberately choose a lifestyle exposing him or her to so much vilification, opprobrium and physical abuse, even death. To discriminate against our sisters and brothers who are lesbian or gay on grounds of their sexual orientation for me is as totally unacceptable and unjust as Apartheid ever was."

>>..the sensible thing is to assume for the moment
there's nothin' there. <<

Yes, for the moment. Yes, in the present, in this physical
whirled of four dimensions. We are limited by the senses
we have to perceive our reality, our time/spatial environs.

Unable to share experience of other whirleds, other dimensions,
other planes of existence, we tend to pretend that 'this' is all
there is. Or we build arbitrary constructs of imagination called
Beliefs to explain what we cannot otherwise explain.

Yet when science demonstrates phenomena such as
the experiments in question suggest, why are we so unwilling
to support further examination of the possibilities?

We clearly see an unexplained situation, counter-intuitive to
our normal expectations and reject it in spite of the very real
chance that we are actually observing para-normal activity.


~jwf~

>> It seems that religion, like many other "entities",
tends to follow an evolutionary pattern with time. <<

Yes.
That's an important insight many have yet to achieve.

If I may further suggest that many 'systems' evolve,
it is also true that most will suffer from entropy and
fade away - perhaps after sowing the seeds of the
next generation.

Remember the plants were here before us. They know
all about growth and regeneration and variation and
adaptation. And they suffer the insects and fungi and
weather extremes. And none of them live forever, though
some trees are said to be older than Jesus. And there's
a giant mushroom under the western plains of North Am
that has been there at least since the ice retreated.


~jwf~

Hi Stone Aart,

>all that happens is the Church splits

Yes, sure, that's how the institution deals with it. But the individuals involved... do they really not see that the individuals on the other side equally earnestly believe that they hear God telling them exactly the opposite? Doesn't that call into question for them the whole idea that God really does 'talk to people'?

Gif

>> Doesn't that call into question for them the whole idea
that God really does 'talk to people'? <<

Excellent question!

I'd really like to hear from someone who believes their
answer from God was better or more True than someone else's.

Not from different Faiths with different gods - but exactly
in this situation of COE believers getting different replies.

And not from political types like Blair who simply choose
the more politically correct side of things.


~jwf~

>>Yes, sure, that's how the institution deals with it. But the individuals involved... do they really not see that the individuals on the other side equally earnestly believe that they hear God telling them exactly the opposite? Doesn't that call into question for them the whole idea that God really does 'talk to people'? <<

God knows what the answer to that is

>> God knows what the answer to that is <<

Well I'd like to hear it. C'mon God, tell us.
Inquiring minds want to know.


~jwf~

Dag-nobbit!
Can't find any faithers to bully round here no mo.
Ah well.
http://youtu.be/ghtoPiAE1sA


~jwf~

The atheist that created that youtube video is as heavy into distorting reality and pulling wool over peoples eyes as the worst of the proselytising religious fanatics. It even tries to blame religion for Hitler's and Germany's actions in the second world war. What is the atheist trying to prove and why?

Eggsactly!
The whole thing dissolves as Godwin's Law intrudes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law



On another note, what would happen if the battle
of the Atheists versus the Faithers were over:

http://youtu.be/vR7DCFCkqao


~jwf~

Of course Wile E Coyote is just a fictional cartoon character.

Real coyotes are a different matter:

http://youtu.be/NqVE9qfg7yI


~jwf~

It's finally happened!
Scientists can't handle their atheistic nihilism
so now they're trying to establish an afterlife myth
- a new Faith based on quantum theory.
Let us prey.



~jwf~

Got so excited about having a scientifically approved afterlife
I forgot to post the link:

http://www.robertlanza.com/does-death-exist-new-theory-says-no-2/

"...individual bodies are destined to self-destruct, the alive feeling – the ‘Who am I?’- is just a 20-watt fountain of energy operating in the brain. But this energy doesn’t go away at death. One of the surest axioms of science is that energy never dies; it can neither be created nor destroyed."


~jwf~

Hmm, atmosphere, you go for a walk breathing in nitrogen, oxygen, argon, carbon dioxide and a tad of water vapour. Your bombarded by a variable array of energy radiation, now your saying we are also subject to a think soup of dead people in the form of remaining energy. Im definately doing my shopping on line now, god knows as to who your breathing in , yuk.

So life is just a "20 watt spark" of consciousness, eh.

I may never again be able to have an objective relationship
with the 20 watt bulb in my refrigerator. I will forever
wonder if it really goes off when I close the door.


~jwf~

Ah, the old philosophical conundrum. How do we know what things are doing when they're not being observed?

Noggin