h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi Nog,

Since I have had an unexpected spare evening, I have taken the opportunity to do something that I probably should have done a while ago - actually sit down and compare, Pharaoh by Pharaoh, the Dynasties that Velikovsky claims are 'echoes', i.e. the same people under different names.

Vel matches the 19th Dynasty to the 26th, and the 20th Dynasty to the 28th, 29th and 30th.

Straight away, we have problems - there just aren't enough Pharaohs to go around. There are 8 Pharaohs in the 19th Dynasty; exactly which Pharaoh should be counted as the first of the 26th Dyn is debated, but since Vel matches Ramesses I (founder of Dyn 19) with Necho I, we are left with just 7 Pharaohs in Dyn 26 to match the 8 in Dyn 19. This is made worse by the fact that Vel's Pharaoh-by-Pharaoh matching skips Psamtik II in Dyn 26, so just 6 Pharaohs left.

This gets even worse with the subsequent Dynasty/ies. There are 10 Pharaohs in Dyn 20 (Setnakhte and Ramesses 3, 4, 5... 11). There are just 8 in Dyn 28, 29 and 30 taken together. So we're missing 4 Pharaohs somewhere.

The other obvious point is that Dyn 19 closes with a female ruler, Twosret. Dyn 26 closes with a male, Psamtik III - in fact, there are no female rulers in Dyns 26 - 30. And of course Dyn 26 ended with the conquest of Egypt by foreigners - Dyns 19 and 20 feature no such disruption.

I then moved on to individual Pharaoh, starting with Dyn 19 vs Dyn 26.

Velikovsky explicitely links Ramesses I with Necho I, and links Seti I with Psamtik I.

Ramesses I ruled for about 2 years, and was of non-royal birth. Necho I ruled for 8 years and was the son of a king. Not much of a match there. Ramesses I's mummy has been found - Necho's hasn't, but we know he was killed in battle, something that Ram's mummy shows no signs of.

Seti I ruled for either 11 or 15 years - Psamtik I ruled for 54. However, that point is not as clear as it might be - Manetho claims Seti ruled for 55 years, which is very close - though it would be strange that the first decade of Seti's reign was very heavily documented but there is not one record from the next 40 years. Let's be generous to Vel and call that a score draw. Seti was dedicated to the god Set (hence the name), whereas Psamtik was dedicated to Re. Again, not absolutely impossible, but it would certainly be unusual (and probably unique) to be dedecated to two different gods. They both fought against Libyans (the Pharaohs, not the gods!) - but Seti was expansionist, campaigning in Libya, Nubia and Syria (and capturing Kadesh); Psamtik was attempting to rebuild the 'core territory' of Egypt by expelling foreign invaders.

I haven't got much further, but already there are clearly some significant problems for a Velikovskian interpretation... admittedly I haven't looked in much detail, but this simply doesn't seem to be two different descriptions of the same people. It doesn't even look passingly similar! The whole historical context is wrong, with Dyn 19 being the peak of Egyptian power and ending in civil war, whereas Dyn 26 was just barely independent from the Assyrians. If I didn't have a reference in front of me, I just wouldn't be able to work out which Pharaohs Vel is matching with each other.


Gif

Mummy!

~jwf~

>Mummy!



Gif

Yup.
30,000 posts into this thread and
I still can't take religion seriously.

~jwf~

Not only is god infinite but so is this thread.

>>30,000 posts into this thread and
I still can't take religion seriously. <<

You're clearly religious ... and your God has four wheels and an engine. Hallowed by thy ignition key.

>>..your God has four wheels and an engine. <<

Well spotted!
But to be True I must expand on that notion.

It is not the vehicles themselves I worship as gods
but the state of being and interaction one has with
them that puts one in a state of grace and ecstasy.

It is the same state that artists and poets and musicians
and dancers experience when in communion with Nature
or works of man-made art. The automobile is of course the
ultimate expression of man's organic interaction with, and
command of, the Laws of Physics with immersions into the
Supranatural.


~jwf~

Hi Gif

Have taken our discussion back to the other thread.

Noggin

Hi Nog - probably best!

Hi jwf - I have a feeling I missed the reference, but does anyone else remember the protest against a service of thanksgiving for the automobile industry in (?) Coventry Cathedral?

Gif

I missed that, but Coventry is surely the place
for such a thing. MGs, Jaguars... I can see it
in my mind. Pew upon pew of little british cars.
All humming 'Hayzeus loves me and Lucas is
the Devil'.

~jwf~

car-door-nal
vi-car
Christmas car-ol
car-thedral
The ten car-mandments
Car-istmas
Jesus Car-ist
The wheel of God in Car-ist.
Repaint before it's too late.

~jwf~

Still laughing.
And now I got Leonard Cohen singing in my head:

"When they said, (they said)
'repaint', (repaint)
I wondered
what they maint."



~jwf~

>Repaint before it's too late.



I am totally stealing that sometime.

Gif

Once again Science 'proves' there is a correlation
between Faith and the True Nature of the Universe:

http://news.discovery.com/human/spirituality-brain-function-mediums-121116.html


~jwf~

>>http://news.discovery.com/human/spirituality-brain-function-mediums-121116.html <<

"The less active the brain was ... the more complex the writing was."

... and there lies the rub


Of course complex writing doesn't mean it's not complete bolluxs (pardon the french).

>> the rub <<

Au contraire. (carrying on your Francophonics)

If there is in fact a spiritual possession
would it not follow that the less activity
in the test subject's brain the more contact
or intervention can be attributed to possible
'external' spiritual realms?

Remember your basic laws of Physics, the one
that says two objects cannot occupy the same
space at the same time.

If the participant is passive then all active
output must be coming from some other source.

If the participant brain is active there is less
capacity for external forces to be channeled.

Y'canna pour water through a funnel blocked with
syrup.


~jwf~

The measurement itself is limited. It will pick up local activity within the brain, but more "delocalised" (spread out) activities are not picked up. Imagine it as "signal" and "noise". Delocalised activities within the brain tend to be seen as noise - the background of the measurement.

The results indicate that these "expert" "spiritualists" have reduced localised activities in certain parts of the brain. It is not informing us what is happening in terms of delocalised activities. Furthermore the report itself is incomplete; it says some regions of the brain have reduced local activity while other regions have increased local activity, but it doesn't expand further on the latter.

Spirits themselves (in the absence of matter) don't exist - shirley?

>> in the absence of matter <<

Not in our three or four dimensional universe of course.

But isn't that the whole point? I'm sure if Shirley really
thought about it, there would be some insight into these
experiments opening doors of perception into those other
much ballyhooed stringy universes which scientists insist
must theoretically exist as certainly as Heaven doth.

And God said, Let there be a Bigga Banga.

~jwf~

We don't need to go "beyond" the human brain to find "answers" as to what humans say, write, do and feel. I think Dogster is the expert on this forums - doesn't he work with "brains"?

However, even things we can point to and describe, may be far more complex and subtle than we can imagine or comprehend.