h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Religious Education is compulsory in England and Wales up to the age of 14. I can't speak for Scotland.

B

I think you're missing an important thing when you say its not good for kids to venerate Blue "singers" or WWE "wrestlers" eyc...

They are good things for kids to focus on becausethey are much like religion "as we know it" and also more importantly are more realistic.

Lets discount the moralising and stories of friendship and loyalty because you can get that from any fairy story fable or even LOTR.

What Blue have that religion has is honest exposure to reality. When Lee crashes his car spends thousands on lap dancers or whatever it is Lee gets up to we are told much more about it and more honestly and without the supression of evidence that we see when say there is a scandal about abuse within monastic orders say. Eventually despite their adored status the truth will out because eventually it wont be worth the record company keeping his shenannigans out of the public view. Whereas religion is the oldest racket qoing.

I think footballers and football is a better more acurate representation of how things work in the real world and has the capacity to impart many good values in a much clearer and immediate way than religion ever has or can owing to the fact that most of it is nothing more than the fatasies of men pretending to be the will of the bigG.

one love

"I think footballers and football is a better more acurate representation of how things work in the real world"



Please tell me you're kidding.

B

No.

You go down to the park on a sunday. Watch a game you see peopleprosper by effort and team work. You see people punished for bad behaviour and you often see some people get away with bad behaviour.

At the top end of the game you see the extraordinarily skillful and Diego Forlan payed huge sums for their efforts and how the their status affects the way people think of them and treat them. You also get to see that no matter how feted these people are that ulitimately they are not infallible.

Whereas with religion you always get some nutters going on about how it is all every word of it completely true and perfect.

There is no such thing as a bad example as long as you learn a good lesson from it.

You mean learning how not to behave?

I suppose some youngsters do worship celebrities in the sense of trying to look & behave like them. Others will merely admire the skill/talent/fame/whatever & not be a disciple.

Whereas some youngsters may learn good behaviour from e.g. seeing bad behaviour being punished, I think far more often they are likely to be sympathetic with the celebrity for 'getting caught by the grown ups'.

Aren't we getting confused between the worship of some superior deity & the emulation of a revered person?

Up to, so they start at say... 7 and go up 14? Every year, an hour, or so, of this?

"At the top end of the game you see the extraordinarily skillful and Diego Forlan payed huge sums for their efforts and how the their status affects the way people think of them and treat them. You also get to see that no matter how feted these people are that ulitimately they are not infallible."

Thats a very Greek way of looking at it... In ancient Greece, it really didn't matter much about what you did (kill, cheat, etc) just so long as you were the best of the best... Most of the Greek gods slept around, and I think Heracles ended up killing his best buddy for some reason or another... The Greek were into being the best they could be, which is good in some ways (ie. promoting strong, promoting the smart in hopes of a bettered society), but it does have its draw backs... One of the reasons I always liked ancient Greece, they didn't mind being human...

<>

Note, BB, that is opinion, not fact...

Name an older racket or show that religion isnt a racket.

Its no good trying to say its not a fact if you cant show proof. If you want what my proof religion is a racket I can post that.

Oh look! It's my old thread come back to life.

s to read recent backlog.


az

hi

All organised religion is evil. The world would be far happier if all religion was forgotten about and left behind.

I think the key word there is organised - religion in itself is not necessarily a bad thing. The danger is when leaders emerge & the crowd follows.

"religion in itself is not necessarily a bad thing"

Mental illness is not necessarily a bad thing. Autism is not necessarily a bad thing.

Religion is a handicap - a limitation of the mind. The fact that ultimately some people consider themselves better off because they have it doesn't change that fact, any more than the fact that some deaf people are so glad to be deaf they actively want deaf children.

One day, with luck, we'll reach a stage where there will be no deaf people. With all respect to deaf people of the past and present, I don't a world without the deaf would be any poorer than the world is without smallpox. I feel the same is true of religion, although that make take a little longer to cure.

H.

I don't believe that religion can or should be cured. It's ignorance needs curing!

The thing about many religions is that people follow them blindly. They believe what they have been told to believe, and in many cases, what their parents believe and were told to believe. Often when asked, they will say "I'm a christian, but I don't really believe in it".

Sorry, fools, but if you don't REALLY believe in it then you AREN'T a christian. You may follow many aspects of christian ideology, and behave in many ways like a christian, but it's about why you are doing it. If you are kind and believe in 'doing unto others...' because you think it's the right thing to do, that doesn't make you christian. But if you are kind and believe in 'doing unto others...' because of the lessons learned from your Lord Jesus who died to save you, then THAT is what makes you christian. The behaviour isn't the important thing here.

The ignorance of what is involved in following a religion needs curing. People who are truly religious do what they do because of their religion, regardless of whether they think it arbitrarily (morally, ethically, practically, philosophically...) right or wrong. Ultimately the reason that many people become quickly really annoyed by the truly religious is that secular rules don't apply to them. They are "above" (or below, or to the left...) of those sort of judgements.

I'm all for "teaching" atheism in schools, I think it's very important to show children that the passionate belief in something is what makes a person religious, regardless of what creed they follow. A person who truly believs in their lord who saved them, but doesn't go to church or even behave in a "christian" manner is more religious than those that are in church twice a week because their parents make them.

If studying many different religions can help a child to choose one when they reach adulthood, then I support it. But if kids aren't taught that religion is different to morals, to ethics, to philosophy... then the class misses the point.

Ami of zx (the religious existentialist)

A very eloquent reply, but if religions are allowed to stand, then there will always be an idiot who thinks HIS god is bigger then YOUR god and then goes on to murder in the name of............

True, but you have to wonder : is it the religion or the stupidity causing the problem?



Don't have the answer, of course (believe in the lack of arbitrary answers, in fact), but strongly suspect it's the stupidity. Someone who really understands their religion (contemporary experience suggests that these people are very rare) would never even try to debate the relative size/power/might/extent of their god, if they have one.

Am I the only one who finds that atheists really bug me?

I've never met a christian, muslim (or any other religious person) who, in a social context has tried to force their views on me in an agressive, sneering manner. I've been to the pub with muslims who don't drink alcohol because of their religion but are happy to sit and drink lemonade. They don't say "you are such a W**ker, how can you possibly believe it's ok to drink..." etc etc, they just happily live with their beliefs. Likewise, I have some devoutly christian friends who, until it came up in conversation somehow, I didn't know were religious because they are happy to live and let live.

Most of the truly evangelical people I've met have been atheists who, as soon as someone expresses any kind of religion, start to roll their eyes and snort and even, in some cases, swear and curse about other people's beliefs.

It really puzzles me how some people can stand with a straight face and say "religious people are such morons, don't they realise their beliefs are intolerant, racist...blah-de-blah. They can't walk around forcing their beliefs on ME!!!".

Anyone else had this experience or do I just know a lot of evangelical atheists and chilled out religious people? (and I'm not a member of a church or religious group - these are all just people I've met in the pub, doing sports etc etc)

No, I totally agree about belligerent atheists. I don't know many chilled out christians (I think i p*ss them off) but I know chilled out followers of other religions, and I've definitely come up against the "how can you believe that sh*t" atheist types. I don't get it, if you believe in nothing, why do you have to bang on at people who don't? I thought the point was tolerance!

The thing that bugs me most about these atheists is that they think I'm one of THEM. Which I'm not, even though indeed, I have no god. It's not that I don't believe that god exists, the point is moot for me, because even if he/she/they do, they don't apply to me anyway. So I'm not going to join them in snorting at a christian (even an ignorant one) just because he believes in something that doesn't apply to me.

Ami of zx