h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

If anyone asks about my lovelife then I tell them so i think I'm the same as you Xander, I just don't lie

Ok, now I dont teach or have anything to do with the field of education at all, but its no wonder that teachers have a hard time.
When I was at school I suffered much more homophobic abuse from the teachers more than the students. I hope this an exception rather than the rule, but its no surprise that teachers dont come out to even their closest friends on the faculty.

And why, oh why, do parents have such a big thing about it? If someone is going to any job dressed in a gay flag and telling people they must be gay, then, yeah, Id worry too, but contrary to what it sometimes looks like, being gay is not contagious! Some people carry on as though spending any time in the company of a gay person will somehow 'infect' them.
I'm almost certain that many teachers, no matter what sexual orientation they are have some unusual sexual practices, but as long as they're not doing it in the classroom, with or in front of their students what does it matter?!

I think schools are where you'll find some of the worst homophobia. I was bullied for 4 years by various teachers who were well aware of my nick-name (Biker dyke from Mars) and hated the fact that I didnt spend hours discussing boys, reapplying lipstick, or being a 'stereotypical' girl.
While my closest friends were aware I was gay, it was never mentioned and no-one really gave a monkey's about it. The students seemed to be slightly more accepting than the staff!

This country has a huge problem with intolerance and if those are the type of people teaching the youth of today, its never going to get any better!!
Thank god for teachers like Litchick!!

On a plus note though, it helped me to cope with the abuse I think every gay/bisexual person has to deal with in the working world. Although I dont scream it from the rooftops, if people ask, I'll tell them as I do when I make new friends. If they cant deal with it, then thats their loss, not mine. Some of my friends have or do things that I dont agree with but thats not all they are.
I was outed at work but thankfully, no-one cared, they are some of the few people who actually wanted to take the time to dispell myths and gossip rather than assume that every stereotype is true!

Sorry, ranting now.... I'll be leaving!

Willow.

What’s wrong with insurance companies.

Why do insurance companies charge higher rates to gay people than heterosexual people? Let’s consider the options:

1. Insurance companies hate gay people
2. Insurance companies don’t want gay money
3. Insurance companies consider gay people to be higher risk.

Responses:

1. Insurance companies are inanimate entities incapable of feeling emotions.
2. Insurance companies are businesses, in the business of making as much money as possible from their customers, within the confines of the law, for the stakeholders in their companies, by providing insurance services. Their pricing is also constrained by the activities of their competitors. As long as it’s legal, they’ll happily take your money.
3. Insurance companies have decided that gay people pose a higher risk. This is based on:
1. Guesswork
2. Anecdotal evidence
3. Spending large amounts of money investigating the reasons for gay people having a higher propensity to die young.

Which of these decisions do you think is the most realistic? (Hint: see 1 and 2 above)

When I assert that gay people pose a higher risk, this is not based on prejudice. It is based on FACT, and I’d be glad if you’d stop insulting my intelligence by denying it.

HonestIago, I’ve been working in statistical disciplines longer than you’ve been alive, and your half-baked theories make me laugh, quite honestly. If you want to go head to head with me on this, please do so, but it would be a bit like Fred Bloggs v. Lennox Lewis.

I know nothing at all about the field of insurance. However, I wondered if smokers are charged more for life insurance? Are those with a history of depression charged more? Are those who drive cars that are more powerful than average charged more (I know they are for car insurance)? I'll put my hands up I don't know many gay people but those I do live fa more clean living lives than most of my straight friends - many of whom have gone through a number of years taking class A drugs/abusing alcohol/having massive amounts of unprotected sex. I did live with a gay guy at uni and he was a grade A dipstick, taking drugs, sleeping with anything that moved etc but then last year I worked with a straight guy who was exactly the same. Isn't there this element in both straight and gay groups? Is it really true that this is more true of gay men now (I am under teh possibly misguided impression that things have changed).

And HonestIago I think teaching is a fantastic career and sexual orentation will have nothing to do with it. iF YOU want to be very honest about it there are some schools who will not object. Teaching is an incredible way to touch so many lives (I am feeling all gushy as have spent the evening with a number of my students adn they were all appreciative of our efforts as educators! )

I am unqualified to talk about most of this - as I say I know nothing about insurance or the gay scene for that matter. Final point - thanks to HOnestIago and Black Eyed Girl for backing up my way of dealing with gay taunts in the classroom - little support always welcome!

Litchick xx

Statistical analysis shows that Africa has a higher percentage rating of death by AIDS that any other country, does that mean that we should start to punish African people because of that FACT, No it doesn't!!

What it does mean is that certain people, including companies have a narrow minded attitude towards certain groups of people, not because of the choices that they make, but purely for being who they are.

Frankly I care very little for statistics, I don't like the idea of labelling people, African, British, white, black, gay or heterosexual, we are all still people, red blooded with our own levels of inteligence, and until those narrow minded people/companies realise this, nothing will ever change.

People tell me that it's the way of the world, I ask, as a child may, WHY?

Xander

"3. Insurance companies have decided that gay people pose a higher risk. This is based on:
1. Guesswork
2. Anecdotal evidence
3. Spending large amounts of money investigating the reasons for gay people having a higher propensity to die young."

"Which of these decisions do you think is the most realistic? (Hint: see 1 and 2 above)"

What you're forgetting is that for most people, life insurance isn't really an optional descision. Thus, people will by it even if they raise the premiums a bit. Now, if some insurance companies employ or are run by homophobes, might they not think they are a higher risk because they don't like them. After all, they won't lose money if most companies do the same thing.

Actually, gay men do have a lower life expectancy than straight men. This is true for many reasons. Partly it is because of HIV, which (according to studies by Oxford and Canadian researchers) will account for as much as a twenty year difference in life expectancy between gay men and straight men, and anal sex itself is a risky business. (The anus was not evolved for such a purpose.) Furthermore, gay men are more promiscuous, and other diseases account for a reduced quality of life.

However, there are other factors that critics of homosexuality are not keen to disseminate. First, the negative view of homosexuals leads to a higher suicide rate for gay teenagers than for any other group in the world, and many adult men are driven to suicide or affected by 'hate crimes'. While this accounts only for a small number of the deaths, the much advertised non-monogamous nature of homosexual behaviour would, most likely, also be reduced if homosexuals were accepted more easily in society, and thus less likely to turn to the traditional 'gay lifestyle' because of the lack of acceptance they find in normal life.

But face it, statistics are statistics. I have a fairly advanced knowledge (compared to most of the population - natch!) of statistics, so I'm aware of their limitations, but in this case they're probably accurate, if uninformative in many respects.

Insurance companies are heavily into making money, not discrimination.

- Jordan

As its been mantioned, how are we defining 'gay lifestyle'. This thread seems to have issues with definition in previous postings and Im interested to know how millions of peoples lives are going to be defined this time around?

Is it just applying to gay males, or are lesbians also included in the definition? Although from what Ive read before, it seems there are slightly different rules and opinions of lesbianism.

I refer to the stereotyped, and sadly often true, image of gay individuals (mainly men, predictably) as sex-obssessed and promiscuous.

This I say from statistical evidence and experience. I know there are plenty of exceptions, but that doesn't make it any less of a general rule - which is, by definition, general.

It refers to only one aspect of a gay person's life which is incidentally the most dangerous, if viewed in terms of impact on health.

- Jordan

Reddyfreddy,

<>

I don't recall Iago stating any theories, though he has been posting his opinions which seem quite fair, open minded and well thought out. Unlike *your* half-baked conspiracy theory, which truly was laughable.

So your a statistics expert, eh? It turns out that statistics are not always accurate and that methods for obtaining statistics can be very faulty. For example:


http://slate.msn.com/id/2098/


az

Willow, Iago, Xantic, et al,

Truly it must be a terrible thing to grow up feeling discriminated against just for being yourselves. And then to get lumped together with a segment of other homosexuals who choose to live their lives in a promiscuous manner. This is just bigotry, plain and simple.

In a way I don't blame those homosexuals who feel a need to 'shout it from the rooftops' as I am sure their frustration must be very great. Though I do think that sexual orientation is a private and personal matter. And it has nothing to do with morality. All the homosexuals I know live quite normal lives, or as normal as they are allowed to. If you can consider it normal to have to live in fear of others unfairly judging you.

'Be not another if thou canst be thyself'

- Paracelcus


'Pity their ignorance and despise them'

- Charles Dickens



az

Reddy, I know next to nothing about statistics, I'm the first to admit this. However AIDS rates are increasing amongst heterosexuals while starting to decline amongst gays - this isn't a statistic, it's a fact. The biggest reason for this is because of the *much* greater safe-sex campaigns in the gay community because as a community we realise the devastation HIV/AIDS has caused and are acting to combat it. There is no equivalent amongst the heterosexual community. Also I see you didn't answer my question about civil partnerships so I'll ask it again: would you have an objection to this arrangement so that gay couples could have equal legal rights, in particular next-of-kin rights, to straight, married couples?

hi Iago,

I hope that I was previously able to give a clear example of how statistics are not to be believed as fact as often people use statistics, and their means of obtaining various statistics, only as a means to support their own argument.

No, Reddyfreddy didn't answer your (and others) question about civil marriage ceremonies. Which *are* valid marriage ceremonies. And between homosexual couples they are quite legal in many places.

Reddyfreddy has previously posted that he/she thinks this is a moral issue.

I do await Reddyfreddy's response on this. I have no idea who Fred Bloggs and Lennox Lewis are. I assume they are boxers? RF seems to have put you down, Iago, as a lightweight contender. Though he/she has not responded to any of my challenging postings. Which match yours in content and feeling. Perhaps because RF isn't twice my age? And cannot claim this as a automatic superiority?



az


az

There have been many quoted passages from the bible and other texts although I have yet to see;
'All men are equal' or 'love thy neighbour' make an appearance.
Im pretty sure it was just 'love thy neighbour' rather than love thy neighbour unless he's gay. Could be wrong!!

I know many gay males, some of whom are promiscuous but all of them are always careful! It seems grossly unfair to bundle everyone into the same box based on their sexual activity.
This country, and many others find things easier to deal with if they can be programmed, catergorized, easily referenced or fit nicely into a pigeon-hole.

If we look back through history rather than statistics, the views and opinions held by many of homosexuals, today, is exactly the same opinion that was displayed towards the black community, asians and other 'ethnic minorities' and also women! If history has taught us anything, surely its that the more you try to control and repress something, the harder it will fight back?!

Just joining in the debate here ... and looking at the backlog, I'm reminded of a quote (I think by Franklin) that may apply here: "there are lies, damned lies and statistics"!

I am very critical of the suggestion that gay men have shorter lifetimes than straight men because of their promiscuous lifestyles, STIs and other health risks, especially when they use statistics to try and back this up. (There are plenty of statistics that can give a different picture, but I won't mention them here.) I have relatively reliable ancedotal evidence to contradict this: my straight housemate - so far, he's had unprotected sex with at least 4 women in the last 3 months.

Now for my views on gay marriage .... as far as any kind of marriage is concerned, gay or otherwise, apart from the now-optional religious aspects, it is essentially a registration of two people's committed relationship in the eyes of the law. The fact that most people relate "marriage" to straight couples is probably because the existence of gay relationships has only been (legally) acknowledged for the last 36 years.

However, I believe that the introduction of "gay marriages" would improve society's view on gay people (such as myself) - it would demonstrate that they *can* be faithful to one another and lead comparatively normal lives.

OK, rant over!

Mikeo.

hi Mikeo,

Nice rant.

<>

Well, yeah! This has been my entire argument all along. Did anyone read my link about the absurd 'statistics' found about homosexuals living shorter lives? It was just such total nonsense. And it was shown to be nonsense. So much for statistics.

I get so upset about this sort of argument although I am not homosexual myself. Mostly because it just smacks of intolerance and total ignorant unacceptance and that makes me quite angry.

My question to all who judge others in such an offhand manner is - who the hell do *you* think you are???

You see, this is the whole problem with our world. That there are people who think they are somehow superior. Yet they are not content with feeling so. They are actually so insecure that they need to put down all others who do not feel, believe, act *exactly* the same as they do. If you are different then they will look for ways to punish you. Why? Because they are so insecure and afraid.

Many things scare me about the world I live in. However, the idea that homosexuals are happily living their lives and marrying whom they choose does not even come close to any of what I fear. Why should it? This is not any sort of problem at all, as far as I can see. Any more than the masses of heterosexuals getting married daily. Why should I care about who gets married to who? Well, I don't.

Instead I worry that our societies are becoming more closed and more money oriented. That what 'matters' is that one is able to make a lot of money. That we care more about what we can buy, more than we care about the person standing on the street corner selling the Big Issue (for example).

Stopping in mid-rant now. Excuse me. Just felt I had to say a few things.

az

Alot of people seem to spend more time worrying about other peoples lives, especially if there's a situation or issue they fear or dont understand to escape the boredom of their own sorry lives... thats why soap operas, are so popular.
If alot of these people dealt with their own issues instead of worrying about if Mr X is sleeping with Mr Z then maybe the world would be a happier place to live in.

As Im thinking about that, if governments dealt with the issues in their own countries before running off to save everyone else in the world, maybe the economy/NHS would be in better state!

I should go before I end up entirely off subject!

Willow

My statistics weren't based on his methodology.

Anyway, I'm just defending insurance companies. The annoying thing is, their methods rely on gaining the most accurate statistical information they can. Thus, there is a real impetus for them to be more intrusive than ever...

- Jordan

<< Anyway, I'm just trying to defend insurance companies >>

I appreciate that you are just trying to defend your side of the story, however, these companies, by nature, are placing people into groups and punishing those who do not suit their idea of the perfect customer, by using statistics. I feel that the arguement has been made by a number of people here, that gay people are no more an insurance than anyone else.

I ask again, are people who skydive for a hobby, punished because they jump out of a perfectly good airplane? I would think not.

So the only conclusion that I can come to, is that insurance companies, by the very nature with which they treat homosexual people, are homophobic. If I am wrong about the skydiver thing, I appologise, but I have a number of insurance policies and have never been asked about my hobbies.

Xander

was supposed to say...<< That gay people are no more an insurance RISK than anyone else >>

Xander