h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Is it Zion or Xion?

I dont think it has been destroyed. I think only the ships sent to the weak point were destroyed. If it was destroyed then we don't get to see that cool looking mech (Anyone else thinking gunsliger kbot?) that was guarding it fight.

There is an alternate explination to still in the matrix/powers outside the matrix. The lightningy effect could have been an EMP blast from the ship that went to pick them up. The 'I can still feel them' could mean a lot of things, conveniently Neo is too unconcious to explain himself.

I think the film was okay without having played the game - though I've heard the games good in its own right so I'll have to have a looksee.

Luke - i think your wrong there. the options for Neo were:

a) Go to the source, allow the machines to kill everyone in Zion. then Neo would choose a certain number of people to be freed from the Matrix and start a new Zion. however, Neo would have to let Trinity and Morpheus and evreyone die.

b) Go back into the Matrix, which would result in no new people being released to run Zion, which i think has something to do with the running of the Matrix, so the Matrix would shut down and everyone would die.

Neo went back into the Matrix, insuring the death of the human race. however, the end seems to suggest that Neo has some sort of connection or something outside the Matrix.

spook

Spook

Ahh I see. Hence Morpheus saying in the first film: "There was a man who freed the first of us. The oracle prophesised his return." I'm gonna have to see it again and try to digest some more of that conversation with the Architect. Also when the Oracle said that Neo would bring an end to the war is that coming true because he chose to temporarily save Trinity and Morpheus, albeit at the cost of all humanity. Btw I'm pretty sure when they said there was only one survivor they meant one survivor from the two hovercraft sent on the counter attack. Cos I'm pretty sure the final battle with the 250,000 sentinels for Zion is in the last film.

Luke

This was pointed out to me today by someone else who'd seen the film...

Assuming what the Architect said was true, and that this whole "The One" scenario had played out before, doesn't that imply that every time before, "The One" had chosen to save the Matrix, and chosen the requisite 23 people, sixteen women and seven men, to repopulate it?

And if this is the case, isn't the Matrix remarkably genetically diverse, considering they've been "thinned" this way five times before? Look at the makeup of even the crew from the original movie - Switch, blonde and pale, Trinity dark and pale, Apok some kind of Pacific area descent (I think), Dozer and Tank kinda mixed African-American, Morpheus purer African American, and Mouse and Cipher plain vanilla Caucasian - and then there's Ghost, an Oriental, and the Aussie Aboriginal in the hallway at the Oracle's place (although he may have been a program...). How has all this diversity been preserved? (Or am I being silly?)

H.

I thought the 23 people where to be freed from the matrix to populate zion and continue freeing other people *from* the matrix - ie the matrix carried on the same it was just zion which got culled every 100 yrs or so - and genetically that wouldn't matter much because most of zion's population came from the matrix and wasn't born outside it.

Bugger I'm confusing myself now...think I need to see the film again when I'm not half asleep.

Ah... good point.

H.

yeah the 23 are definitely for Zion. Nothing in the Matrix really changes so ethnic diversity is irrelevant.

it may have just been the spacecraft battle that only left 1 surivor, i may have mis-interpreted that, i'm not sure. i'll have to wait until the third movie to know. although, if they were only an hour away and then sent a counter-strike, it won't be long ino the third movie before the attack.

yes, the one was meant to choose 23 people to keep Zion alive. this seems to suggest that Zion must exist to keep the Matrix working somehow, however, the machines destroy Zion when it starts to become too powerful.

the third movie will hopefully answer everything.

spook

Yes, Zion hasn't been destroyed yet, it was either the spaceships or just upper levels.

I seem to remember something in the first film about some of the founder people in Zion having never been in the Matrix, but survivors of the 'great disaster'. That could explain the multi-racial mix.

Obviously some current inhabitants have been born outside the Matrix & have never been in it (no body connectors).

I'm with Rafe, you have to suspend rational thought to see a good movie. Else you start saying things like why didn't Cipher just pull the plug on Neo first, without showing off.

Actually, they were talking about the first line of defense being destroyed, not Zion itself. They have some hours left before the machines reach Zion.

Myjo

Er, I guess I should have refreshed after reading the backlog.

Myjo

"Jet Li was Seraph: 'First, I must aporogise.'"

Oh, that explains why he could fight! Still the question remains why I didn't recognize him... Not good. Must have been the glasses...

Methos

After seeing "The Matrix: Reloaded", I remember the scene set in the real world outside of the Matrix, where a desperate Neo raises his hand and manages to kill the attacking sentinels, apparently creating an EMP. My question is: "Should I put quotes around the phrase 'real world'"? In other words, is Neo's 'real world' a physical space, the inheritor of our world of 1999 and beyond, or just another layer of control inside a larger Matrix? Imagine an endlessly regressive series of virtual-reality shells whose inhabitants are unaware of the true nature of their reality, a reality manipulated by beings who themselves are unaware of the true nature of their own reality....

PQ: You're right. The Architect says something along the lines of Zion being a 'presure-relief valve' for the Matrix. Early versions of the Matrix failed because they were trying to control 100% of the inhabitants. Having Zion allows the rebellious 0.1% to be dealt with without increasing the [insert technical jargon] of the Matrix. But when Zion gets too big, it has to be culled or it will become a threat. And yes, it seems clear that everything Neo has done up to now, including opting to save Trinity, is following the path of the previous Ones. Remember, he has no choice in this.

Unfortunately, at that point the 15-yesr-olds in the row behind me started making 'I-don't-understand-this' noises, and I lost the thread

Does anyone else think that the Ws deliberately made this film complex so that people would need to see it more than once? We seem to be agreed that the plot is impossible to follow on one viewing. As I said before, everything now hinges on whether all this is necessary background for the last film or just irrelevant fluff.

Gif

>>Does anyone else think that the Ws deliberately made this film complex so that people would need to see it more than once?<<

That is cynical but great!!

Gif

That's why I was troubled with the theory that Neo has chosen a different door to the other Ones. I was inclined to think that by savin Trinity Neo was following the path of the previous ones. The architect was clear that he knew that Neo would do this. He said that with the previous five Ones their decision was based on a more general care for humanity whereas Neo's was based on specific love for one person.

Luke

I think I get this now, it makes it easier when you can read it slowly rather than follow someone's voice:

http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000238

It appears Spook's right about Neo's door equalling end of humanity and being a different choice to the other Ones. However, the one survivor is definitely from the 5 counter attack ships. Zion is yet to be attacked.

That's that cleared up then. Still have no idea what's coming next though.

Luke

I think it's funny, how the advertising for the movie here, has mainly based on the 'twins' and the Agent Smith clones... The thing is, that they don't really have much of a part in the movie...

by the way, the one survivor is actually agent smith (or one of his clones)

Yes and if you think about it there are two people in comas. They have both been exposed to EMP blasts because the 5 counter attacking ships were foiled cos someone set off an EMP too early (the smith possessed traitor) and it's also probable that the sentinels chasing Neo etc were stopped by the EMP of the ship that saved them. This second EMP could have knocked Neo into a coma. Why? Well look at the two men. The common denominator is contact with Smith. They are both either part machine or part code or something. I believe that Zion is real though and not part of the Matrix.

Luke