h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

obviously you can't put a price on a life, but would a compulsory id card scheme stop people committing crimes such as murder? the death penalty certainly hasn't stopped people, carry a plastic card won't.

people go missing and don't want to be found for a variety of reasons - their privacy should be respected. i'm not suggesting that's what happened to amanda dowler, i have no idea what happened to her.

It is amazing how much freedom and privacy people are willing to give up for reducing crime.

I just feel that as a law abiding citizen I have nothing to lose. Now if the copyrite police asked to search my computer it would be a different matter

Mel

It's a matter of when ID can be checked.

For example, I assume at the moment that the police could check credit card records from shops in case someone comitting a crime had purchased something nearby close to the time of the crime (assuming they didn't pay with cash), so an ID card in place of/alongside credit cards wouldn't necessarily add much more usable data to the system than is currently available.

RE: 195- Yes, if they wanted to they could. At the meet Hoovooloo dropped a credit card reciept with his full name, expiry date and number on it. My partner picked it up and gave it back- he'd glanced at it for a second, and horrified Hoo by reciting all the details.
This is not a secure way to do business.

Scary how stupid we can be really! Maybe there ought to be a law making shops be more careful with what is printed on a receipt.

Mel

The likes of ASDA and Sainsbury's (I think) seem to * out the unique part of the number on card transactions. Don;t know if anyone else does tho'.

The newer systems are better but some of the old systems still print out all your details, they were about before the days of tele sales and internet use.

Mel

Kerr, yes, after checking the reciept he might have recited the information, but to do that he needed the reciept. What I suggested was that people couldn't get the information from the card itself while the transaction was in process. Finding a reciept and memorising that info is a totally different matter as the info is all in one place and in clearly contracsted text against the background of the reciept.

If UK credit card issuers were serious about cutting credit card fraud then they would adopt the US/European system of the cardholder having to key in their PIN to authorise the transaction. This not only makes it difficult for opportunist thieves to use your card but also makes card cloning almost impossible.

From the UK issuers own figures as well as the anecdotal evidence here it is clear that relying solely on a signature is useless.

This of course has little or nothing to do with ID cards which of themselves would only marginally reduce credit card fraud.

Okay, could you just tell me. With credit cards in UK, do you not have to put in a PIN code when putting them in an ATM?

On the other hand the cards often don't swipe (due to either the card or the reader being dirty or damaged) and the numbers have to be manually input. It would surely be fairly easy for someone with a good memory to memorise them as they tapped them in (specially since they then sit there with the card in front of them while the machine checks with the central clearing system (which can take ages) and the card receipt prints out).

Now that they have those small portable swipers I don't think it happens anymore. But I remember when I was younger when my dad would pay by credit card in a restaurant, the waiter would take it out back and do something there. What should have kept him from copying all the details I don't know.

Yes you need a pin to use the ATMs, they haven't introduced the credit card pin system for paying yet though I wish they would.

But I wish they would put a photo on the cards too, but then again I'm not that worried about the whole ID card thing, so maybe there is some infringement of privicy by either of these two systems

Mel

Indeed when drawing money from an ATM you need to input the PIN.

If we had the US/European cards with a microchip and needed to key a PIN into authorise every transaction there would be little or no need for photos on the credit card.

As someone rightly pointed out credit cards, drivers licences, passports are all voluntary so it id possible to get through life without any of them!!!!!

Since you have moved the goal posts to ID Cards - Why ?
Heregoes.

Identity - A dictionary definition : Absolute sameness ; individuality, personality ; condition of being a special person.
Identify - A dictionary definition : Treat as identical ; associate inseparably or very closely ; establish identity of, recognise ; select by consideration.

Identity is a fundamental to our existence. We need to establish that identity among other human animals, in fact certain aspects of our way of life demand it. We could howl to the moon, fight, smell each other , urinate at each corner of our property.
In the course of our lives we have all had some form of identity given to us, often without our consent, some with our full agreement, there are some that we may even demand as our right.
The whole process is now so complicated that it requires an army of people to control it. Each individual process has gone its own way in terms of certification, licensing and organisation. The only thing they all have in common is proof of identity. As life goes on the modus operandi will become more and more complicated.
We can reduce one variable within this turmoil by using todays technology to its best advantage in order to establish proof of identity. This information must then be used to improve the way in which we do things in a modern civilisation. If that information can be reproduced satisfactorily on a plastic card so much the better. Using this as a form of recognition must surely be more akin to modern human society than smelling each others genitals.

But if it will all rely on one single card, they need to make pretty damn sure it can't be copied. How do you propose they do that?

I don't think I need a card to assure myself of my identity, nor really to prove to the cashier that I got my A Levels.

What I want is a card that says 'yes this person is over 18.' 'yes she lives where she says she does' 'Yes she is a member of your club so let her in.'

I wonder whether there would be a switch on the card (like the record bit on tapes!) that when they swiped it ticked the no junk mail box

Mel *just cleared the 56 (hotmail) + 44 (homemail) junk emails accumulated since I left work yesterday *

Another sign of xanatiphobia.
The point you make is areal one.
Please read posting 161.

I did. The question still stands, how do you propose to make them safe? Why should they not be able to forge one, just cos your iris scan is on it. They just copy the info, uses your name and puts a new photo on it. Will work fine untill somebody does an actual eye scan on them.