h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Ah leave AB, Ross, s/he obviously likes to be childish when not getting their own way...

Its happening!

"For UK domestic flights, passengers (over the age of 11) must present photo identification. We will only accept a passport, photo driving licence, national ID card, airport ID (issued by a recognised Airport, Airport Authority or Airline), services photo ID (eg. Army, Police) or CitizenCard."

this is from the Go airlines - apparently i can't fly within in Britian on Go without a passport

Don't take a book.

A story of Bill Bryson's: He got asked for photo ID when getting on a domestic flight in the states, and security refused to accept a book that he'd written with the author's photo on the jacket.

B

Are you suprised after the Sept 11th, britain hasn't got the forces to deal with a terrorist attack. The fire brigade and police just wouldn't be able to cope.



As for the childish thing, it is because of the childish attitude of society that we need ID cards, gimme gimme gimme, mine mine mine. Steal from the rich and I'll be the poor, regardless of how hard the rich have worked to earn their money and how much they currently give to the third world who believe me need it a damn site more than anyone in our country.



Security, yes there are clever people working on security measures, trouble is the are more intelligant people working on cracking it
We need to work on educating our children to give them some moral standards to make ID cards unnecessary.

Mel

*believer in ID cards but feels the underlying problem is more urgent*

I must have been asleep when this was announced. i need a passport to travel in my own country! or a citizen card - that'll cost me £10 and is 'sponsored' by such luminaries as ladbrooks and somerfields. a quick look tells me that easyjet and BMI require photo-id too - when did this happen?

"As for the childish thing, it is because of the childish attitude of society that we need ID cards, gimme gimme gimme, mine mine mine. Steal from the rich and I'll be the poor, regardless of how hard the rich have worked to earn their money and how much they currently give to the third world who believe me need it a damn site more than anyone in our country."

Mel - eh? . if this is a reference to AB, i think we misunderstood 'the now shut up' thing, an attempt at humour on AB's part

After Sept 11th 2001 are you really that surprised that there is an increase in security for internal flights? This doesn't bother me in the slightest, in fact I'd prefer to have the extra security measures. I am surprised that it bothers anyone any more.

k

yeah, it does surprise and sadden me. thin end of the wedge to a more compliant society and all that; the further disenfranchisment of society. ideals i believe are worth fighting for even harder after september 11.

It's not a dig at AB it's a dig at the people who are calling him childish.

Society is childish, as are we all, (myself included) selfish and selfcentered. Until we grow up and start to behave in an appropriate manner we must expect for people (admittedly often other childish people) to want to treat us like children.

Children are malicious, the playground is not a nice place to be.

It is said that society and the world go through the same stages of growing up as a human being, at the moment we are about 13, trying to put things right but not quite sure how.

Mel
*feels that every child deserves an education, so why should one disruptive child ruin it for the rest?*

Bruce Springsteen, Ladies and Gentlemen...

Apologies for the frivolity, but I really don't see Britain as being the next global terrorism target. There are things in this country that frighten me a lot more - the IRA (ceasefire or nay), youth crime, Harold Shipman, Myra Hindley, Birmingham City fans. ID cards seem like a typical Labour quick-fix that isn't actually going to change anything.

B

"thin end of the wedge to a more compliant society and all that"

Wow, that is paranoid! Having travelled on internal flights in the US in the first week of September last year I was amazed (even then) that it was possible to just get on a plane as though you were getting on a bus - they aren't the same at all. I'm from the UK and most of the flights I had taken before then were short hops to Europe although I did go to Scotland once. I took my passport that time because I was just used to having it checked for flights.

I suppose I just don't see it as oppression, or an infringement of my rights when airlines attempt to protect my life

k

Why do you not see England as the next target?

Hate to seem a little self centred but I think we're a fairly major target, especially after Blair's attitude towards the 'war on terrorism'(tm)

As for youth crime see my earlier posts!

Mel
*in todays society whose job is it to discipline children, parents or teachers? because one doesn't want to and the other isn't allowed to*

Mel - I still do not see how ID cards will solve any of the ills you describe in your last few posts.

What will solve them are such things as :

decent housing, high qulaity education for all not just those that live in middle class areas, an honest forward looking truly service minded police force, providing developing nations with true opportunities to develop rather than saddling them with debt and austerity measures, the western world treating all nations with an even hand, the UN security council growing some teeth and using them to enforce its resolutions.

I agree with the poster that suggested ID cards were a "New Labour" knee jerk (or should that just be jerk) reaction to current issues.

paranoid? ... perhaps... that must be the drugs.... oh sorry, wrong thread ... short-term memory problems too ... although am i as paranoid as those who think britain is the next terrorist target?

maybe i was being a bit facetious, but i have very real concerns about my privacy and id cards being brought in through the back door. as i (and many other people) have said before - we still haven't been convinced that id cards are the panacea that the government claim them to be. i still don't know the benefits to having them. i can, however, see several areas of potential abuse.

W****E, who said you'd need a passport to travel within your own country? You said yourself in the post that any one of a host of other types of ID would suffice.

I agree with Kelli there. Why would anyone be surprised that a type of ID is required when you board a flight? The tickets are booked in your name, and it clearly states in the terms and Conditions on the tickets that only the person whos name is on the ticket is allowed to fly using that ticket. I wouldn't be surprised if that was beacuse of if things like 9/11 happens, they will be allowed to see who was on board and will be able to notify families.

I mean, how would you feel if someone from your family had booked a flight somewhere, had to cancel it and decided to sell/give away the ticket to someone else, something happened to the flight, and since your family member's name was on the boarding list, you'd get a call saying that that family member of yours was dead? It's a way for the airlines to make sure who is on the flight.

Of course there can then be people who use forged ID, but why should we as a society make it easier for people who want to hurt us or our loved ones by not endorsing ID checks at airports?
I can then hear you ask "Why just the airports, why not when boarding a train or a bus?" Mayeb because you can't redirect a train to crash into a building of your choice, and a bus doesn't carry thousands and thousands of gallons of high-octane fuel.

What we witnessed on September 11 of last year was terrorists intent on causing havoc in the world. What did they use to do this? Box cutters! With these box cutters, they gained control of fully loaded planes and used the planes and its fuel as bombs. Crash a plane into a building and you're guaranteed a massive explosion. Crash a bus into a building and you need to be damn lucky to get an explosion without having explosives in the bus.

*believer in ID cards but feels the underlying problem is more urgent*



I do not believe ID cards will solve the problems, I believe the problems need to be solved for ID cards to be unnecessary.

An asprin does not solve a hangover, it just hides the symptoms. untill there are no more hangovers there will always be a need for asprin.

Mel
*Not a believer in asprin as a cure for a hangover since a hangover is purely dehydration, 1/2 pint of fruitjuice, 1/2 pint of water, 1/2 teaspoon of salt. As many times as necessary. 'cures' not 'hides'*

I have to agree with W*****E on this one, Mel. There are more important things to worry about.

I have to say I don't have a big problem with providing ID for a domestic flight, but maybe that's because I have a passport and I'm used to using it in the airport, wherever I'm going. This also raises the question in my mind however that if I provide ID for a domestic plane journey, what about trains and coaches? You could use the same arguments here, although I would have to disagree with having to do that. Because if you think about it, when you reserve your train tickets, although they stick a ticket in your seat anyone can take it out and plead ignorant. I know, it's happened to me.

fords, I don't know how much sense I made in my post, but I expressed what I thought at the time was a valid point about the bus/train trips.
The pre-booked seats in trains that are marked with the small paper notes is obviously not the best system in the world, but at the same time, your seat number is listed on the ticket you carry with you, so if someone's taken your seat and you really don't like it, you can always take it to the train conductor. I dunno.

It's even more frustrating when you've booked 3 seats and they take 2 of them

I'm afraid I just told them to move. I reserved for a reason, if they wanted to they could have done, I think you can reserve up to and hour before with some train operators!

Mel

Sorry guys and gals I anticipated a hiker would recognise the implication behind posting 1. ie that a human will do anything given the correct inducement. My choice of an ID Card to make my point was obviously a wrong one, but I still believe that even in that context it would apply. In the cause of why I ventured to open a conversation at all, it did more than serve its purpose. I tried to divert the conversation from a discussion of earthly historical events with no success. In any event thank you W****E for opening a diversionary thread. I'll be back when I've done a bit of revision and further research into the wider aspects of h2g2.

In the meantime please carry on with your historical earthbound conversation, but make sure that you press the correct 'Reply Button' when interjecting otherwise any Newbie who tries to become involved will not be sure where he/she is at.
Perhaps one day after a bit of thought you may come back to the point that I tried to make in the original posting, at which point it is vital that you press the correct reply button, because by then the conversation could have gone anywhere ('Its Happening' - leaves the whole conversation wide open - I wish I'd thought of it W****E)
The Newbie Ancient Brit is learning..
When I learn to talk I shall go walk about..
If you find this posting confusing try reading <./>U197657</.>

ah yes, thank's AB (tactful as ever) for reminding me i've kinda provided just one (albeit a big one) valid reason for having the blasted thing... i must apologise to everyone for that

it still doesn't salve any of my fears about id cards and their potential uses/abuse in a whole host of other areas